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US won't insist on a two-state solution in the Middle East

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Thunderian

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Re: US won't insist on a two-state solution in the Middle Ea

PostFri Feb 17, 2017 3:34 am

Scimitar wrote:by my estimation, 40 years maximum before Israel ceases to be Israel and becomes Palestine again.

Scimi


I don't think it will be that long. Within ten years, I think. Maybe less.
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Re: US won't insist on a two-state solution in the Middle Ea

PostFri Feb 17, 2017 12:24 pm

If it happens that soon, then I'm off in my eschatology, by 30 odd years lol.

Either way, Israel as a political entity with imperially carved borders will fall and the contextual Israel (believers) will return.

As it stands - Israel is the most secular state in the world. And Israeli returnees are irreligious. Atheist. Religion? Something to be amused at.

This is not the Israel which God told the Children of Israel about.

This modern day Israel - is an inversion of biblical teachings.

To most though, the wheat and the chaff are one and the same - they are not.

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Re: US won't insist on a two-state solution in the Middle Ea

PostFri Feb 17, 2017 8:53 pm

Scimitar wrote:If it happens that soon, then I'm off in my eschatology, by 30 odd years lol.


Imagine that, a human trying to calculate God's timetable and being off. :grin:

Either way, Israel as a political entity with imperially carved borders will fall and the contextual Israel (believers) will return.


Agree. Amen.

As it stands - Israel is the most secular state in the world. And Israeli returnees are irreligious. Atheist. Religion? Something to be amused at.


Partially agree. I don't know that Israel is any more secular than any other state, but I definitely wouldn't class the Jews or the state of Israel as God-fearing in general.

This is not the Israel which God told the Children of Israel about.


Definitely not.

This modern day Israel - is an inversion of biblical teachings.


Disagree. The modern state of Israel is absolutely in line with what the Bible said would happen. The rebirth of Israel as a nation was prophesied to the day. Their recapture of Jerusalem was prophesied, again, to the day. You're just reading the wrong book, brother. :wink:

To most though, the wheat and the chaff are one and the same - they are not.


I feel like I may have said this once or twice, but Israel's modern rebirth and return to their ancestral land is not predicated whatsoever on any good work they have done or their spiritual state. These events are solely an act of God, promised in ancient times and fulfilled as part of a greater plan of redemption for his chosen people.
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Re: US won't insist on a two-state solution in the Middle Ea

PostFri Feb 17, 2017 10:34 pm

Thunderian wrote:
Imagine that, a human trying to calculate God's timetable and being off. :grin:


yeah lol haha, it's gonna keep happening. No one can accurately predict when, just estimates really.

Thunderian wrote:Agree. Amen.


Amen.

Thunderian wrote:Partially agree. I don't know that Israel is any more secular than any other state, but I definitely wouldn't class the Jews or the state of Israel as God-fearing in general.


ya know bro thunder, I wish we'd had a chance to intro ourselves properly. You and I share some views which align and we are from different, though related faiths.

I find the common ground interesting simply because it lets both of us, see a very subtle truth we both can agree with.

Thunderian wrote:Definitely not.


I wish it was though.

Thunderian wrote:Disagree. The modern state of Israel is absolutely in line with what the Bible said would happen. The rebirth of Israel as a nation was prophesied to the day. Their recapture of Jerusalem was prophesied, again, to the day. You're just reading the wrong book, brother. :wink:


i'm not gonna argue your or my position here because I am actually appreciating the perspective from a comparative angle.

We see more when we do this.

Thunderian wrote:I feel like I may have said this once or twice, but Israel's modern rebirth and return to their ancestral land is not predicated whatsoever on any good work they have done or their spiritual state. These events are solely an act of God, promised in ancient times and fulfilled as part of a greater plan of redemption for his chosen people.
[/quote]

I cannot disagree with you - God has on many occasions used an unbelieving folk to punish the believers and vice versa - HIS will over all.

Amen to that.

What a nice exchange bro,

Honestly, I'd have a coffee with you :)

God bless,

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Re: US won't insist on a two-state solution in the Middle Ea

PostSat Feb 18, 2017 12:27 am

Scimitar wrote:
Thunderian wrote:
Imagine that, a human trying to calculate God's timetable and being off. :grin:


yeah lol haha, it's gonna keep happening. No one can accurately predict when, just estimates really.


We can only look at events and see how they line up with what God has told us will happen and then guess when the next thing is going to take place. The hard thing sometimes is to trust that he will keep his promises even when it looks like they are impossible to fulfill.

Prophecy in the Bible has always said that Israel would be gathered again into their land in the last days, and when it finally happened, it was like a hammer had come down on the heads of those who had written the Jews off because it was a promise that had taken so long to fulfill.

ya know bro thunder, I wish we'd had a chance to intro ourselves properly. You and I share some views which align and we are from different, though related faiths.

I find the common ground interesting simply because it lets both of us, see a very subtle truth we both can agree with.


I would say that any common ground we have is purely coincidental, but we both know there are no such things as coincidences. :wink:

We were destined by the Almighty to cross paths, and I pray that we will both be guided into all truth.

Thunderian wrote:I feel like I may have said this once or twice, but Israel's modern rebirth and return to their ancestral land is not predicated whatsoever on any good work they have done or their spiritual state. These events are solely an act of God, promised in ancient times and fulfilled as part of a greater plan of redemption for his chosen people.


I cannot disagree with you - God has on many occasions used an unbelieving folk to punish the believers and vice versa - HIS will over all.

Amen to that.


Israel has a lot more to go through as a people. They will be driven from Palestine and most of them killed before they come to redemption and enter into the relationship with God that they have been rejecting for thousands of years.

God bless,


You too, bro.
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Re: US won't insist on a two-state solution in the Middle Ea

PostSun Feb 19, 2017 12:39 pm

Thunderian wrote:
Scimitar wrote:
This modern day Israel - is an inversion of biblical teachings.


Disagree. The modern state of Israel is absolutely in line with what the Bible said would happen. The rebirth of Israel as a nation was prophesied to the day. Their recapture of Jerusalem was prophesied, again, to the day. You're just reading the wrong book, brother. :wink:


The modern day Israel is an inversion of biblical teachings. It is in Ezekiel 37 that is so often quoted by Zionists. They say that is where we are according to prophesy. Benjamin Netanyahu even quoted this.

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/insideisrael ... bile=false

However, Ezekiel 34 clearly references the coming of Messiah (Jesus) and the rebuke of the shepherds. "I, Yahweh, will be their God, and my Servant David will be a prince among them. I Yahweh, have spoken. I will make a covenant of peace with them and eliminate dangerous animals in the land, so that they may live securely in the wilderness and sleep in the forest." (Ezekiel 34:24-25).

This is the primary problem with suggesting that the fulfilment of the Israel that was established in 1948 is being fulfilled in a linear fashion from the latter chapters of Ezekiel. This never happened, because as I am sure you have noticed, they have not accepted Christ. His Servant David is not in any way a prince among them. "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep."(John 10:11).

Next, in Ezekiel 35 we see the destruction of Edom. “This is what the Lord God says: While the whole world rejoices, I will make you a desolation. Just as you rejoiced over the inheritance of the house of Israel because it became a desolation, so I will deal with you: you will become a desolation, Mount Seir, and so will all Edom in its entirety. Then they will know that I am Yahweh," (Ezekiel 35:14-15).

So this would be Rome, and we all know that the Roman empire fell and became a desolation after the siege on Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple.

Then, Ezekiel 36-37 talk about a time of peace in Israel that will come after the shepherd comes and Edom becomes a desolation.

Here is a video testimony of this time given by a native Christian Palestinian named Alex Awad who was a little boy in the beginning of the occupation. His testimony gives a description of Ezekiel 36-37

phpBB [video]


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Students of the National Christian Orthodox School, Jaffa, 1938. The school was founded in 1921 by the Christian Orthodox Welfare Society.

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A soccer match in the Palestinian quarter of Bab al-Zahirah (Herod’s Gate), outside the Old City walls to the northeast – perhaps the earliest photograph of a sports event in Jerusalem.

Just a couple of the many, many examples of the peace that existed that is described in Ezekiel 36-37.

Next, comes Ezekiel 38, which creates some conflict in the studies of many Christians trying to force a Zionist narrative within the prophecy. Even though, it should already be a major red flag that there is no peace, or Servant David ruling over them that is described in Ezekiel 34-37.

Nevertheless, this creates this sort of ambivalent joy when Christians decide that the Jews have been returned to Israel, but then Gog is going to come against them. Those poor Jews. Just hated by everyone. Finally get to return and bam! Gog comes out of the north...not even stopping to think that the Jews who returned to the Israel in 1948, came from the north?

"In the last years you will enter a land that has been restored from war and regathered from many peoples to the mountains of Israel, which had long been a ruin. They were brought out from the peoples, and all of them now live securely. You, all of your troops, and many peoples with you will advance, coming like a thunderstorm; you will be like a cloud covering the land.

“This is what the Lord God says: On that day, thoughts will arise in your mind, and you will devise an evil plan. You will say, ‘I will go up against a land of open villages; I will come against a tranquil people who are living securely, all of them living without walls and without bars or gates— in order to seize spoil and carry off plunder, to turn your hand against ruins now inhabited and against a people gathered from the nations, who have been acquiring cattle and possessions and who live at the center of the world.’ (Ezekiel 38:8-12).

This is where we are according to Ezekiel, and the state of Israel is Gog.

In Theodore Herzl's book "The Jewish State" he explains that the Jews must obtain wealth to overcome social prejudices against them (page 4). They don't need to depend on God to deliver them. They need to become economically competitive with other nations.

He describes the Jew as the proletariat, which were the hero's of Karl Marx's "Communist Manifesto" although Marx was careful to not designate the Jew as the role of the proletariat and the Christian as the bourgeouis. This might have been controversial.

Theodore Herzl does not have to be concerned with this and frequently refers to the Jew as the proletariat. Although, he calls the Christians Anti-Semites. He says, "Many Christian citizens--whom we call Anti-Semites" (page 5).

So, basically, according to a leader of Zionism with the vision of a Jewish state, using the word anti-semite is the same thing as talking about Christians?

He says, "No one can deny the gravity of the situation of the Jews. Wherever they live in perceptible numbers, they are more or less persecuted."(page 4).

So what does the Bible have to say about "persecution of the Jews?

“I will make you a ruin and a disgrace among the nations around you, in the sight of everyone who passes by. So you will be a disgrace and a taunt, a warning and a horror, to the nations around you when I execute judgments against you in anger, wrath, and furious rebukes. I, Yahweh, have spoken" (Ezekiel 5:14-15).

Why doesn't Theordore Herzl mention this judgement especially if Ezekiel 34 has to be fulfilled before the return of Isreal in 1948 in order for us to be in the fulfilment of Ezekiel 37? Don't you His Servant David would mention this?

Example, "Fellow Jews. We have suffered many years because of our sins. We cannot be restored unless we acknowledge that our diaspora was the judgement that God made against us for the sins of our people. If He restored us once, when He delivered us from Egypt, He can restore us again. If He restored us twice from our captivity in Babylon, He can restore us again. Brothers and Sisters, it is time that we learn not to depend on the nations for our survival anymore, but return to our former dependence on God for our protection, safety, and prosperity."

Don't you think if Ezekiel 34-37 were being fulfilled through the state of Israel, someone would be saying something like this? Nope, Theodore Herzl says they been "persecuted" as though it were unfair when there is not one single verse that anyone a Jew can cite about experiencing persecution. Every single verse describes judgement. So Theodore Herzl is a false prophet.

Here is what Ezekiel had to say to the false prophets. "The word of the Lord came to me: “Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel who are prophesying. Say to those who prophesy out of their own imagination: Hear the word of the Lord! This is what the Lord God says: Woe to the foolish prophets who follow their own spirit and have seen nothing." (Ezekiel 13:1-3).

Theodore Herzl's brilliant plan included something like an octopus effect that would be more or less required for the Jews to leave the nations they were inhabiting. Basically, there would need to be two entities that would need to be created in order to facilitate the transfer to Israel. A Jewish Company and The Society of Jews. These two institutions would remain in the land to handle business for the Jews who had left. He even says that a state of Israel can not be created without continuing contact with Europe.

"We should as a neutral State remain in contact with all Europe, which would have to guarentee our existence" (Page 15, emphasis added). Here is it again, the idolatry of the Jewish state. It is contact with Europe that will guarentee our existence, not a restored relationship with God that is described in Ezekiel 34-37.

This is explained as though it were in the best interest of the Christian nations; however, The Jewish Company is specifically created to maintain financial interests, after the Jews leave. Basically, he is saying that if the Jews leave, some economies might crash as a result so they will have to remain as a banking institution in some way to "help."

What does the book of Revelation have to say about the description of The Jewish Company in consideration of the present octopus that is the creation of the state of Israel?

"For all the nations have drunk
the wine of her sexual immorality,
which brings wrath.
The kings of the earth
have committed sexual immorality with her,
and the merchants of the earth
have grown wealthy from her excessive luxury," (Revelation 18:3).

Therefore, it is not the Bible that is wrong. The interpretation of the prophecies by men are wrong demonstrating what the Bible refers to as the falling away before the end (2 Thessalonians 2:3).

Often I hear people praising Israel and condemning Islam, but how on earth, in 1500 years, will the Muslims believers ever fit the description of Revelation 18:3. Israel is an inversion of Bible teachings. It is a fairy tale and the problem is that Christians don't think they are capable of idolatry. They think they are somehow immune to believing lies that is allowing it to continue.
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Re: US won't insist on a two-state solution in the Middle Ea

PostSun Feb 19, 2017 5:14 pm

HI and peace to you rainerann,

we've not had a chance to speak yet, but if I may.

I believe what bro Thunderian is alluding to is the following (I could be wrong so I would await his reply).

The children of Israel did not fulfil the covenant, but God kept HIS end of the covenant anyway - and now that which is happening in Israel/Palestine is willed by God.

This is what I believe bro Thunderian is saying.

God Bless, :)

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Re: US won't insist on a two-state solution in the Middle Ea

PostSun Feb 19, 2017 7:23 pm

Both wrong, lol.

Israel is not in possession of the land they were promised and won't be until the millennial reign of Jesus Christ.

What we are seeing now is a rebirth and regathering of Israel in preparation for their final seven years of earthly judgement as a people. Their claim to the land they hold now is a clear and strong one, and although it's God's will, one need not be a believer to be a Zionist. There are Arab Muslim Zionists.

A brief timeline for what's still to come is as follows:

- Rapture of the Church
- Antichrist revealed
- peace treaty between Israel and her enemies
- Jewish Temple rebuilt
- Antichrist declares that he is God and global persecution of Jews begins
- remnant of Jews flees from Israel to the city of Petra (also referred to in scripture as Edom, Bosrah and Selah) where they are protected by God after they finally repent and call on him
- Jesus Christ returns with his saints and destroys the armies that are threatening the remnant of Jews at Petra
- Jesus descends onto the Temple Mount, then faces the forces gathered against him at Armageddon
- Jesus mulches the forces of evil, turning them into a fine paste (citation needed)
- Satan is bound and Jesus Christ rules the earth for 1000 years from Jerusalem in a united and completed Israel, who are finally in full possession of the land that was promised to Abraham

I believe that the state of Israel has been reformed by God to gather and preserve the remnant of Jews that will finally repent and turn to him.

I want to post more but I'm on my cell. I will try to provide scripture for everything when I get home.

Pray for my boy, if you would. We're at the doctor's right now. He has excruciating pain in his upper leg and we don't know what the cause is.
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Re: US won't insist on a two-state solution in the Middle Ea

PostSun Feb 19, 2017 8:14 pm

Looking forward to it - now I understand your brief eschatological breakdown of events, I would like to do a comparative to my own, if I may. Not for the sake of argument, but because I'd like to compare the two to see where they align and how strongly, with what supporting evidences etc.

I'll wait for your more detailed version :) before I post mine, God willing.

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Re: US won't insist on a two-state solution in the Middle Ea

PostSun Feb 19, 2017 8:19 pm

Thunderian wrote:Pray for my boy, if you would. We're at the doctor's right now. He has excruciating pain in his upper leg and we don't know what the cause is.


6 – It was narrated that Abu’l-Darda’ (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: “Whoever among you suffers some sickness, or his brother suffers some sickness, let him say: ‘Our Lord Allaah Who is in heaven, hallowed be Your name, You will is done in heaven and on earth; as Your mercy is in heaven, bestow it upon the earth. Forgive us our sins. You are the Lord of the good. Send down some Your mercy and healing upon this pain,’ and he will be healed.” Narrated by Abu Dawood (3892); classed as saheeh by al-Haakim in al-Mustadrak (4/243) and as hasan by Ibn Taymiyah in Majmoo’ al-Fataawa (3/139).

7 – It was narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The one who visits a sick person who is not dying, and says seven times in his presence, ‘I ask Allaah the Almighty, the Lord of the Mighty Throne, to heal you,’ Allaah will heal him from that sickness.” Narrated by Abu Dawood (3106); classed as saheeh by al-Nawawi in al-Adhkaar (p. 180) and by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

https://islamqa.info/en/75399

I pray your son is healed of all sickness, pain and malady, by the will of God, Who has Power and Might over all things and is the Most Merciful and Beneficent to His creations. Amen.

God bless you and yours, Thunderian.

Scimi
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I have nothing to do with any recommendations to join any war on any person , race or community. I do not support ISIS nor any other movement, I seek opportunities to unite mankind, I seek to look at common ground and choose to ignore differences. I do not support violence, I condemn it. I have no affiliations with any promoting of violence be it political, racial or religious.
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