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The Inauguration

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justjess

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Re: The Inauguration

PostFri Feb 03, 2017 9:38 pm

You said unions are fake socialists and traitors. Sorry if I took it wrong but coupled with this latest post I really don't think I did. Your not in a union and don't see the need for one? Great for you.. but I'm pretty sure you work in a country with strong minimum wage law and worker protections on the national level. That isn't the case here. Same job one union one not. Union gets $30/hr and non union maybe $14 if your lucky, (we are talking skilled labor like plumbing carpentry or HVAC here) union gets benefits and vacation time non union gets nothing. This is reality here. And yes unions have shrunk and only represent a minority now - that's a problem for American workers they need more unions not less of them.

Maybe you are mistaken or something.. but I am working class. I don't need to agree with a bunch of right wing pro life working class workers in Michigan to care for working class needs and views. By virtue of my paycheck my own views and needs qualify.

In every state with right to work laws wages have gone down benefits have gone down job security has gone down.. I don't care what it says on paper I care how it actually plays out. None of those are good things for people who rely on their paychecks to survive. I don't care if some charismatic politician convinced them otherwise.

No the majority of Americans aren't against unions. No the majority of Americans don't support the ban. No the majority of union leaders aren't pro Trump etc etc.

And yes I cared about the insurance premiums going up - though we will disagree about the cause (they went up across the board by the way) - and I never said I was pro Obama care. I actually disagree with it a lot but think we need single payer. Different type of disagreement.

I'll come back and edit in the links this isn't easy from a mobile.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -divisions

Note: the new York chapter of LIUNA (national chapter is referenced here - labor workers) as well as most of the new York chapters of construction unions are all vocally against Trump. I clearly follow the new York chapters since that is what applies to me and also clearly there is division even inside the unions probably geographical location plays a big role.

Also according to article 37% of union members voted trump. Not a majority.


http://www.businessinsider.com/49-of-am ... ban-2017-1

49% is not a majority.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/12751/labor-unions.aspx

56% of americans support unions. So you are mistaken again.
Scratch most feminists and underneath there is a woman who longs to be a sex object. The difference is that is not all she wants to be. ~Betty Rollin

"I don't really aspire to being rational. I'm more attracted to the irrational," she says. "There's no such thing as total rationality. That's something I've realized lately." - Scarlet Johansson
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Re: The Inauguration

PostSun Feb 05, 2017 9:10 pm

Also according to article 37% of union members voted trump. Not a majority.
Never claimed the opposite. Union members make up 11% of workers anyway, almost half of 30 years ago. Strange trend when 57% Americans supposedly approve labour unions.

http://www.businessinsider.com/49-of-am ... ban-2017-1

49% is not a majority.
49% vs 41% is a majority. Don't argue semantics. I was saying that more were in favour than opposed.


No the majority of Americans aren't against unions. No the majority of Americans don't support the ban. No the majority of union leaders aren't pro Trump etc etc.
Okay, Americans aren't against unions. (I only asked btw, I didn't state). Majority of Americans are in favour (if a president wins 49 to 41 everyone would call it majority). I never made any statement about majority union leaders being pro-Trump. I posted a video of Trump's meeting with union leaders and those union leaders greatly approved of Trump after the meeting.

Can I also add that I don't have anything against labour unions. I have a problem with modern socialism. Labour unions are merely a byproduct of socialism.
The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled is convincing the world he is God.
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Re: The Inauguration

PostSun Feb 05, 2017 11:33 pm

49% doesn't equal a majority artful. You can be honest about it and say more people strongly support then strongly suppose but that 10% of people in the middle don't just disappear or go de facto in support. Even if a majority of people supported the ban - they don't - that wouldn't make it automatically right or ok. If the majority of people wanted to jump off a bridge I'd still tell them it was a bad idea.group think isn't usually a positive phenomenon.

The small amount of Americans covered by unions isn't reflective of whether people support them or not. It's reflective of the lack of union jobs available. Everyone I know would rather take a union job if it was available - that's why hundreds of people line up when ten open positions are advertised. There aren't very many union jobs available anymore because of legislation like right to work laws which trump supports which destroy unions and corporations blocking employees from unionizing. Not because poeople don't really want them.

You aren't anti union but your anti modern socialism and feel unions are a part of that.. which to me seems an awful lot like your anti union.

Do you or do you not work in a country with strong worker protections on a national level artful? I'm sorry but it's impossible to speak about American domestic issues with you when I don't even know what kinda system you yourself are coming from.
Scratch most feminists and underneath there is a woman who longs to be a sex object. The difference is that is not all she wants to be. ~Betty Rollin

"I don't really aspire to being rational. I'm more attracted to the irrational," she says. "There's no such thing as total rationality. That's something I've realized lately." - Scarlet Johansson
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Re: The Inauguration

PostMon Feb 06, 2017 8:26 pm

Yeah, my country is probably up there when it concerns labour protection. I have nothing against unions, unless they become the active and vocal pawns of socialist ideology that no longer knows what's good for them. Why do they oppose Trump? You still haven't given an answer as to why they oppose the guy the working class voted for and who's going to bring the jobs back that were taken from them (which he has already shown in his first week).
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Re: The Inauguration

PostMon Feb 06, 2017 10:02 pm

I NEver said because you never asked..

Right to work legislation, a cabinet stocked with billionaires who have been hostile to middle class needs and issues, appointees who are not qualified to run the departments they have been appointed to, infrastructure plans that cater to big business, deals that undermine the unions.

Then there are union specific issues such as antagonism towards public schools for the education unions etc.

What exactly has he kept to as far as his promises that you are referring to?

I'm happy that you are living somewhere that is kind to workers. Not every one is so lucky. My husband makes $9 an hour right now to do the work of three men and it's skilled labor. I am making pennies to what I am used to making at a company that refuses to give me full time hours because they don't want to pay benefits. Despite promising me full time hours when I took the position. Things out here have been horrific for workers since the economic crash of 2008.. there are so many people looking for work that employer are entirely taking advantage because they know people are just desperate for any job.

If I could apply to immigrate somewhere else more in line with my personal beliefs I would, I can't because of my husbands previous legal issues. I'm stuck here and every single thing that happens here impacts me extremely. It isn't just a fun thought experiment.
Scratch most feminists and underneath there is a woman who longs to be a sex object. The difference is that is not all she wants to be. ~Betty Rollin

"I don't really aspire to being rational. I'm more attracted to the irrational," she says. "There's no such thing as total rationality. That's something I've realized lately." - Scarlet Johansson
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Re: The Inauguration

PostMon Feb 06, 2017 10:44 pm

justjess wrote:What exactly has he kept to as far as his promises that you are referring to?
His threat of 35% import tax and promise to scrap two regulations for every new one is insourcing jobs from major companies. It's a bit too soon to be expecing visible effects already, but there's no reason to believe why this wouldn't work. All it required was a bit of guts and some curryfavouring.

I'm happy that you are living somewhere that is kind to workers. Not every one is so lucky. My husband makes $9 an hour right now to do the work of three men and it's skilled labor. I am making pennies to what I am used to making at a company that refuses to give me full time hours because they don't want to pay benefits. Despite promising me full time hours when I took the position. Things out here have been horrific for workers since the economic crash of 2008.. there are so many people looking for work that employer are entirely taking advantage because they know people are just desperate for any job.
Bad stuff. And that after 8 years of Obama who I remember said "Yes We Did". What a con artist.

If I could apply to immigrate somewhere else more in line with my personal beliefs I would, I can't because of my husbands previous legal issues. I'm stuck here and every single thing that happens here impacts me extremely. It isn't just a fun thought experiment.
I honestly believe it'll get better in the US, but I'm only a dude with an opinion, I could be wrong. My country is decent in terms of labour benefits, but I don't know how much that'll last as it's one of the founding members of the European Community and thus probably the last to drop out of it, and those Eurocrats are seriously screwing us over seven ways till sunday. So if you're ever thinking about going to the EU, I strongly recommend you do not. We'll probably be heading down while the US goes up.
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Re: The Inauguration

PostTue Feb 07, 2017 4:40 pm

I don't really see it the same way.. for one I'm not sure the import tax has even been approved yet. I've been following things pretty closely and I haven't seen it, could have missed it in which case I'd be happy to be shown. The two regulation thing I'm not sure will have an effect either way, it seems to be mostly burdensome for government agencies nothing more nothing less. Again I could be wrong but time will tell.

You say Obama as if u think I voted for or unequivocally supported him.. I did not vote for him and I did not unequivocally support him either. However I also do not blame him solely for the current work conditions in this country. He inherited the recession first off but even aside from that things had been declining for workers slowly and gradually for decades prior. I do have an ax to grind with fake liberals just as much as pro business Republicans though. My ire and annoyance are not reserved for only one side of the aisle.

I do not believe that things are going to get better for common workers here under Trump and I'm saying that based on his appointees and tax proposals. I wish I could say differently but I've seen nothing to make me believe this will be a positive thing for the average worker other then a bunch of pandering and empty promises.
Scratch most feminists and underneath there is a woman who longs to be a sex object. The difference is that is not all she wants to be. ~Betty Rollin

"I don't really aspire to being rational. I'm more attracted to the irrational," she says. "There's no such thing as total rationality. That's something I've realized lately." - Scarlet Johansson
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