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Trump Halts Refugee Processing

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Rainerann

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Re: Trump Halts Refugee Processing

PostTue Feb 07, 2017 12:55 am

Artful Revealer wrote:
Loki wrote:Are you sure that your belief that whites are the current biggest victims of systemic racism is applicable to the entire Western World and not just Britain?
I'm not from Britain. I think the biggest source of the idea is the US. Europe is horrible in that regard too. We get blamed for everything all the time and even complimenting foreigners on how well they speak our language is considered subconscious racism.

But in the US whites are getting viciously attacked by minority agitating militants, the liberal media and the political class that artificially presses down white fertility rates and compensates for those fertility deficits with immigrants to replace us.

Have you seen the violence by mostly blacks against white people who voted Trump? Have you seen the molestation of a handicapped kid by black Trump-hating adolescents? What about the demands and rhetoric coming out of minority groups like BLM or just radical feminists?
.


I'm from the US and I was a child of the 80's. From my perspective, when I see things like the black kids who videotaped what they did to that boy, it is about hate and doesn't have anything to do with race. It so happened that one person was black and the other was white, but my experience growing up after the Civil Rights movement has always been so diverse, I find it difficult to listen to people who want to make situations like this all about race.

It just seems so regressive and like they are trying to conjure a former reality out of their imaginations because it gives them an adrenaline rush. However, these opinions are not based in any reality that I have known. When we were kids, we were all mixed together. I don't feel like I even see race the way I have read that they did in history books.

This is just another example of sensationalised news that is meant to be divisive. Unfortunately, a lot of people take the bait.
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Re: Trump Halts Refugee Processing

PostTue Feb 07, 2017 1:14 pm

Creeper wrote:The wall could also serve
the purpose of keeping
people in as well....


there is a youtube video that may interest you, Creeper, titled:
Donald Trump "The Wall"
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Re: Trump Halts Refugee Processing

PostTue Feb 07, 2017 1:23 pm

Rainerann wrote:
Artful Revealer wrote:
Loki wrote:Are you sure that your belief that whites are the current biggest victims of systemic racism is applicable to the entire Western World and not just Britain?
I'm not from Britain. I think the biggest source of the idea is the US. Europe is horrible in that regard too. We get blamed for everything all the time and even complimenting foreigners on how well they speak our language is considered subconscious racism.

But in the US whites are getting viciously attacked by minority agitating militants, the liberal media and the political class that artificially presses down white fertility rates and compensates for those fertility deficits with immigrants to replace us.

Have you seen the violence by mostly blacks against white people who voted Trump? Have you seen the molestation of a handicapped kid by black Trump-hating adolescents? What about the demands and rhetoric coming out of minority groups like BLM or just radical feminists?
.


I'm from the US and I was a child of the 80's. From my perspective, when I see things like the black kids who videotaped what they did to that boy, it is about hate and doesn't have anything to do with race. It so happened that one person was black and the other was white, but my experience growing up after the Civil Rights movement has always been so diverse, I find it difficult to listen to people who want to make situations like this all about race.

It just seems so regressive and like they are trying to conjure a former reality out of their imaginations because it gives them an adrenaline rush. However, these opinions are not based in any reality that I have known. When we were kids, we were all mixed together. I don't feel like I even see race the way I have read that they did in history books.

This is just another example of sensationalised news that is meant to be divisive. Unfortunately, a lot of people take the bait.


In a sense I agree with what you said here, but at the same time I have no issue calling those young black men and women who perpetrated that crime utter racists and I'm glad they were charged with a hate crime. So, like you said, it was about hate, but they hated that guy because he was a white person who they assumed voted for Trump. To my knowledge they had no real evidence the young man had actually voted for Trump before they kidnapped and assaulted him. It has been a little while since the story so I can't even recall if he had actually voted for Trump in the first place; not that that would justify their hate and abuse.
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Re: Trump Halts Refugee Processing

PostTue Feb 07, 2017 1:24 pm

Thunderian wrote:
I wanted to mention that there are 16 countries (including the UAE, Serendipity) that do not permit entry to Jews. Is this as offensive to those on this thread who are outraged at Trump's Muslim "ban"? Why or why not?


Hmm, you forgot to mention that Israel does not permit entry to those countries as well. It's also a myth actually, since Israelis have been entering GCC countries for years now, heck, there was an Israeli professor at my university too. And even if the ban was actually true, it wouldn't be hard for the Israelis to create false passports, do New Zealand passports ring a bell? ;)

If there is a Muslim country occupying another country and terrorizing its people for 60 years, I would be the first one to support the ban, in fact, I would support a ban on Saudi Arabia right for their war crimes in Yemen. The UN, US and the entire world actually should prosecute them and Israel for war crimes but instead, the US is actually supplying arms to both SA and Israel. Doesn't it sound a bit hypocritical? How about the US stops supplying arms, funding terrorist organizations, stop the Wahhabi-funded mosques and spend this money on education?

One more thing, 'Muslim' is not a race. What would happen to 'white' American Muslims living in America? Should they also be deported? The whole thing is entirely illogical.

Artful, I was actually convinced by your arguments on the previous forums before Trump was elected but after seeing him take charge, this guy is extremely incompetent. While I am glad that Russia and America won't nuke each other, he's screwing up everything else. He does not even read the executive order before he signs them. He's a joke.
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Re: Trump Halts Refugee Processing

PostTue Feb 07, 2017 1:45 pm

Artful Revealer wrote:You're justifying the ban on Israelis because of the violence they inflict upon others. I agree. Yet that same reasoning doesn't apply when it comes to Muslims? Has the great Kung Fu also been slain by the hypocrisy monster?


The same reasoning can't be applied because Muslims were never doing anything that would be considered harmful to the West until they were struck with bullets, bombs, jets, and drones. You're taking two different issues and conflating it as one. Your statement here doesn't fly and so I fail to see the hypocrisy.

However, if you want to speak about hypocrisy why don't you start with Trump because he seems to be a hypocrite in body, mind, and soul :wink:
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Re: Trump Halts Refugee Processing

PostTue Feb 07, 2017 2:22 pm

Artful Revealer wrote:
Loki wrote:Are you sure that your belief that whites are the current biggest victims of systemic racism is applicable to the entire Western World and not just Britain?
I'm not from Britain. I think the biggest source of the idea is the US. Europe is horrible in that regard too. We get blamed for everything all the time and even complimenting foreigners on how well they speak our language is considered subconscious racism.

But in the US whites are getting viciously attacked by minority agitating militants, the liberal media and the political class that artificially presses down white fertility rates and compensates for those fertility deficits with immigrants to replace us.

Have you seen the violence by mostly blacks against white people who voted Trump? Have you seen the molestation of a handicapped kid by black Trump-hating adolescents? What about the demands and rhetoric coming out of minority groups like BLM or just radical feminists?

Liberal media brainwashing our kids with this:

phpBB [video]


Can you imagine anything like this aimed at POC?

What about MTV Decoded?

phpBB [video]


Have you ever listened to regular CNN commentators Symone Sanders and Marc Lamont, publicly expousing their hatred for white people without interference? Or Whoopi Goldberg on The View? No white person could get away with saying about minorities half of what these people say about whites without being called a neo-nazi.

Here a clip from Canada about the inevitable beige revolution, a promotion video (they call it comedy) about mixed races replacing white people:

phpBB [video]



Where else in the world other than the West does the disappearance of an ethnicity get promoted like this?


Then there's the political effort behind this replacement of populations in their family and immigration policies that go against the demographic interests of white people.


Okay, I'll start with the bottom video about beige people and work my way up:

The beige people video is some dumb sketch "comedy" youtube channel that has only achieved 140k views, so I would say that it being "promoted" is an exaggeration. To me though, it makes some sense that in America specifically the mixing of races would begin to be celebrated because we are supposedly a melting pot for all races and cultures. You put enough white people and enough brown people in a country together where they are striving to be equals for long enough and the colors are going to start to blend. Especially when mixed race women somehow end up incredibly beautiful like 80% of the time.

I'm likely not the one to make this argument against though because I've never personally valued white culture and have always (I mean since I was very young) been attracted to brown women and believe that eventually Americans will mostly be varying shades of brown, and that's fine by me. My ancestry is Irish, German, Polish, and English; incredibly white. I can celebrate and admire the history of my ancestors until the day I die (I mostly just love Celtic stuff and I'm a bit of an Anglophile) and none of the history of my family or race is ruined or altered by my children marrying black people or Hispanic people and their babies being brown. To me, the potential disappearance of white people in the future isn't something to be feared, but celebrated. Not because white people suck, but because we are all humans and it doesn't matter what our skin color is. Judging by the bottom half of your post I would assume you'd agree with this sentiment, but I somehow doubt that will be the case.

As for the CNN stuff and Whoopi Goldberg: I don't watch CNN, so no I haven't seen them. I have watched some clips that I see the alt-right going nuts over concerning Whoopi and honestly the ones I saw really didn't bother me much. These commentators of course make sweeping generalizations at times and they might over dramatize, but that's just what entertainers do. The underlying message has never bothered me. You could post some clips you think should and I will take a look at them and give my opinion if you want to. You mentioned white guilt earlier and I replied saying that I don't feel guilty for being white. I wonder if my lack of guilt over being white and in general being cool with black people is why I don't get upset over things that people like Whoopi Goldberg say while the alt-right do. Kind of seems like white guilt projection a lot of the time.

Concerning the MTV clips: I only watched the first one so apologies if the second is vastly different. Yes, those people are cringey, pompous and annoying, but the majority of stuff I see from the alt-right movement is equally cringey, pompous, and annoying. The "liberal" left and the alt-right are just different sides of the same coin and both are super annoying and hard to listen to. Again, though, they are using a lot of generalizations, which is a big problem with our media in general because you don't have the time these days to be nuanced about your views, the video has to be less than 2 minutes or people lose attention. A lot of the things they said were garbage attempts at being funny or pandering to their audience, but a few of their complaints about white guys hold true for a chunk of the white guy population, and that would be who the video is aimed at (or, more accurately, making fun of). I've adopted this policy recently (well, I've probably held it for a long while now but I've only recently realized that others don't think this way) that if something someone says about a group I'm part of (white guys) doesn't apply to me, then I'm not who they are talking about, even if I'm white or straight or a millennial or whatever. I think I realized that many people lack this common sense during the social media explosion of #notallwomen and #notallmen, etc. Like, I never realized that that needed to be clarified. If someone accused all men of being rapists then either they are an idiot that shouldn't be taken seriously or they are making a general statement about all the shithead dudes who rape women and I'm not one of those people so I'm not offended by their remark.

Concerning the attack on that unfortunate white guy, I touched on that in the above post. Concerning Black Lives Matter, I don't support the radical actions of fringe members of that group. I support their main cause, which is to end excessive police violence in general, but specifically against African Americans who are targeted most frequently. Any intelligent supporter of BLM would also state that, of course, every life matters but their movement is specifically in reaction to the string of young black people killed by police over the past several years and they want to impress upon everyone that black lives matter the same as other lives; they aren't worthless. It's truly unfortunate that so many have co-opted the movement to justify acts of violence, and those people should be vocally shunned and disavowed by the BLM leadership. I believe they have been, but that sort of thing doesn't get media attention so I'm not positive. The Tea Party and Occupy Movement were similarly co-opted and destroyed from within in the past, this doesn't seem to be something new.


It certainly doesn't feel like whites are being victimized and "bashed" over here. Just to settle my curiosity on the matter, have you ever visited the US? If you haven't that doesn't necessarily mean you are wrong, but it would explain why so many of your assumptions and assertions don't seem to fit in with what I see and have seen and experienced over my entire lifetime here.
No I haven't. But your observations of what the black communities are going through and the current state of the inner cities can be perfectly true while having an incorrect or incomplete assessment of its causes. You think it's racism? Fine. I think it's an insult to racism to call Western society and its predominantly white population of the 21st century racist as it completely undermines the meaning of racism.


Like I said before, I think that it's a myriad of things, but yes I do truly believe that holdover institutionalized racism is a leading factor. I'm sure that you know that institutionalized racism isn't the same thing as your average redneck calling a black person a nigger (hopefully anyone who may be offended by the use of this word understands the context with which I use it here). The system was set up for African Americans to fail and to keep them at the bottom of the barrel.

There's been way too many debates on racism the past year (I blame BLM for that) but I participate in them because I actually despise racism. I'm saying it explicitly because defense of white people often gets associated with being racist. Somehow the only people that are called racist for defending themselves are white people. I have a primal disgust for people basing superiority or inferiority based on the colour of one's skin as if it's some kind of quality or lack thereof. No one has done anything measurably qualitative or merits kudos for having been born with a certain skin colour, so people who feel superior because of their skin colour prove their own stupidity as it reveals their utter lack of real qualities.


I agree with pretty much all of this statement, however, I don't believe I've ever run into a situation where I needed to defend being white, and I've never been called a racist before because I treat everyone with the same amount of respect and I'm a decent and accepting human I guess. I'm not saying that everyone's experience will be the same as mine obviously, but I do wonder what kinds of situations people are getting themselves into or things they are saying where they have to defend their white race. I've found that most people of color are cool with you being white as long as you are cool with them. That said, there are certainly black people who are racist and would take issue with white people just for being white. Those racist black people are just as much an asshole as all the racist white people.

People should start focusing on common values and the colour of one's spirit instead of skin. I'm perusing through history, of politics, religion, social events, and I see a striking contrast between what our civilization has accomplished and put forward as values with what's being portrayed in modern schools, history books, Hollywood, etc. So yeah, I get defensive when Europeans keep getting blamed for slavery when they participated the least in slavery and were the pioneers in ending it. I get defensive when people say that whites, whether Europeans or Americans, are racist today when we've probably established among the most opportunity-friendly environment for minorities across the world. I get defensive when white people as a whole get blamed for the actions of their governments when they're the first to yell at us that we can't amalgamate or generalize.


Valid things to get frustrated about I think, but I feel like my policy of "if you aren't guilty of it, don't be bothered by it" can apply to a lot of this. I mean we don't need to be tread on and pushed over, but there are ways of discussing these topics without seeming defensive or offended, as if you are guilty of what your race is being accused of and feel the need to justify yourself. That's how the alt-right comes off the majority of the time imo.

I would note that just because, as you said, "we've probably established among the most opportunity-friendly environment for minorities across the world," that doesn't mean we are then excused from being assholes to other races and making it more difficult for them to reach the same level of success we have reached. Nothing bothers me more than that elitist attitude where once you reach the top of the ladder you kick it down just to spite everyone below you. My wish is for everyone to work together towards a place where each of us, regardless of skin color or economic standing, is given a fair shake to try and become something or live a better life. Currently this isn't the case and the elite are working hard to make it less the case, and whether you agree with me or not, I believe that they specifically aim to hold down minorities.

So I hope this made some stuff pretty clear and left some genuine question for you to consider. Don't take it personal if I seem arrogant or aggressive. My curse is that I care more about truth than I do about friends, which I often fail or choose not to camouflage in my messages.


No worries, I don't hold grudges. You came off as annoyingly smug and pompous, which is typically a feature I see in the alt-right. Thanks for taking the time to give a more in depth look at where you are coming from.
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justjess

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Re: Trump Halts Refugee Processing

PostTue Feb 07, 2017 4:57 pm

Artful Revealer wrote:
justjess wrote:But why are they growing up fatherless? These aren't simple questions and they don't have simple answers
Probably because Lindon Johnson started encouraging black women to ditch the father of their children and instead rely on Father State?

Where i was going with it was that there is an economic marriage penalty in the United States for poor people. I don't have the patience right now to go much further into it but it is a huge detreeent for people on the economic edge from getting married. Try to do the right thing out here when your poor and you are punished for it in numerous different ways.
You'll have to fill me in here.

I realize I didn't get back to your other post yet either and i will when I have more patience I'm really under the weather ATM and my husband just got home from work and is bouncing around like an ADHD kid on steroids.

To be continued.
There's no rush.


There's the marriage tax penalty which you can Google for in depth breakdowns of how it works - this is the most and often only known penalty.

But further then that there are all sorts of unexpected penalties - Medicaid and food stamps income limits don't double for increased family size while two workers making 15,000 a year each would qualify on their own as single when they marry and have the combined income of 30,000 they no longer do. If their just cohabitation they are viewed as two households and they qualify for assistance so getting that marriage certificate actually harms them. Same with student loan repayment plans, car insurance rates, daycare assistance programs, vocational rehabilitation and financial aid to improve your skills to get a better job

And this is talking about two people with no other barriers whatsoever. If you add in a criminal record or bad credit or a bad driving record for either one the deterrent to marriage increases even further. As friends as people are concerned the sins/mistakes of one end up being owned by both. Rates go up, housing options become limited, your credit score gets impacted negatively.

To be completely honest being legally married was the worst financial move I could have personally made. It's screwed me 100 ways to Sunday. I learned about this stuff in school studying sociology and social work but it's one thing to learn it and another thing to live it. It beats you down.

I completely understand why marriage and traditional family is destroyed among the poor in this country right now - and statistically minorities are more likely to be poor so even more so among African Americans and Hispanics.

I've argued with you guys about the war against males in this country before but I've changed my mind. Typical male behavior hs been criminalized add poverty to that and increased police presence in poor communities which are more likely to be minorities, the lack of ability to hire adequate legal representation and the lack of adequate education to defend yourself, the school to prison pipeline in these same communities and even wealthier communities where boys are targeted continuously, the financial disincentive for poor women to marry and you have a perfect storm of factors holding the lower classes down - which tend to be non white but not always- therefore I see this through an economic lens while still recognizing it's disproportionate impact on minorities and specifically the African American cpmmunity.

I could go on for days and I wish I had the energy to quote articles and such because I actually am very passionate about this but since it's off topic and I think I have strep throat I will leave it here for the moment.
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Re: Trump Halts Refugee Processing

PostTue Feb 07, 2017 5:49 pm

justjess wrote:To be completely honest being legally married was the worst financial move I could have personally made. It's screwed me 100 ways to Sunday. I learned about this stuff in school studying sociology and social work but it's one thing to learn it and another thing to live it. It beats you down.


I 100% agree with this. We made a bad choice letting the government know we got married. We are losing so much more financially speaking of course now that we have claimed to be "married". Individually both my wife and I were taxed heavily but now we're taxed even more and get even less of a return as well on our taxes. After claiming to be married I actually owe money in taxes.

I've always said there has been a war on traditional moral values and this is just one way they go about it. There's a psychology professor here in Toronto, Jordan B. Peterson and I've had the privilege to talk to him and he's stated that the current problem that black youth face (growing up without fathers) is just an indicator of what's to come for all races if the West continues with their current moral values. He stated that the blacks have just had a headstart and the rest of us are not far behind.
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Re: Trump Halts Refugee Processing

PostTue Feb 07, 2017 5:57 pm

im honestly considering a legal divorce for financial purposes if one of us doesn't find a job with health benefits some time soon because with my medical condition being unable to access health care really isn't a freaking option. It just really sad that something like that seems to be our best most realistic option. Especially because that comes with its own drawbacks.. inheritance rules and giving my mom more power then my husband when it comes to medical decisions etc.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't it seems.
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Re: Trump Halts Refugee Processing

PostTue Feb 07, 2017 6:01 pm

Hey, thanks for making me rethink getting married guys! Super comforting.
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