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Do you, a free person, see Muslim females as slaves?

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Creeper

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Re: Do you, a free person, see Muslim females as slaves?

PostThu Mar 23, 2017 10:09 pm

phpBB [video]
A fool thinks himself to be wise,
a wise man knows himself to be a fool.

Everything is meaningless, a chasing after the wind.
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Rainerann

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Re: Do you, a free person, see Muslim females as slaves?

PostThu Mar 23, 2017 11:20 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
I mentioned and spoke to the Father Complex while you are fixated on the Oedipus Complex which is not the same at all, although I understand that the Oedipus Complex is a part of the Father Complex.

While true that Jesus and Jews called God Father, you should also know that it is true that previous to that, Jews and almost all the Eastern religions saw and described God as androgynous therefore the term Father does not apply.

It should never apply to women who should be seeking their internal Goddesses and not want to become men.

Regards
DL


There is nothing wrong with a father complex. Fathers play an important role in raising children. Christianity referring to God as a father is a way of comparing a healthy relationship between a child and their father taking them to the park or out for ice cream or some other healthy activity to our relationship with God. In a healthy relationship, the role of the father is important in developing trust and building healthy relationships outside the home.

There are also unhealthy behaviors that have nothing to do with religion and religion cannot be blamed for every unhealthy behavior until they bring those unhealthy behaviors into their writings.

However, defending Muhammad is no different than defending Joseph Smith's preoccupation with polygamy. People still think Mormons do good things. Mormon's still read the Bible, but Joseph Smith cannot be defended no matter how benevolent we are told Mormonism is today. It is the same thing with Islam. Muhammad cannot be defended and what it says about marrying a child cannot be removed because of how it will reflect on the character of Muhammad. This is why it has to be defended and it can't be removed because there would be no more Islam if you were to consider the behavior of the prophet wrong.

If he was a prophet of God, he didn't need another wife period. He didn't need a wife who was a child. He didn't need to include this in his teachings. This cannot be defended no matter how anyone tries. There is no similar account of any other prophet in the Old Testament. A prophet would usually devote his life to God. There are few references of them even having one wife, much less many, and none where they were children. So there is a difference between our faiths that you seem to forget. Yes, Christianity refers to God as Father, but at no point do I have to defend Christ marrying a child or any other prophet throughout the Bible. I never have that obligation.

I know that you don't like the Bible, but in the Bible, when someone does something like marry a child when they have several other wives, the Bible expresses that there are consequences to this. When David committed adultery, there was a consequence. When Solomon committed idolatry, there was a consequence. It is clearly conveyed that there is a consequence to our actions throughout the Bible. The consequence is not given in Islam, but it remains that a consequence of Muhammad marrying a child is that this religion can never really be taken seriously without force, and it makes all Abrahamic religions look bad to people like you who cannot separate the differences between them.

I will never defend marrying a child for any reason on top of the fact that she was one of his many wives. Christ said to have one wife and the two will become one flesh (Mark 10:8). Five people cannot become one flesh. Yet they say they believe Christ is a prophet even though Muhammad contradicts the words of Christ so often in his behaviors. No leader should behave as Muhammad did and continue being venerated as a prophet.
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Re: Do you, a free person, see Muslim females as slaves?

PostThu Mar 23, 2017 11:51 pm

@Rainerann

Watch the video, learn something. Seriously.

If you don't believe it, find the part in the Qur'an where it permits marrying children (you won't).

Qur'an > Hadeeth

Gnostic Bishop is unable to separate religion from culture or understand how evil people have used, abused and manipulated religion to suit their own personal agendas since the golden calf and you really should look into it, considering you said this...

Rainerann wrote:There are also unhealthy behaviors that have nothing to do with religion and religion cannot be blamed for every unhealthy behavior until they bring those unhealthy behaviors into their writings.


Educate your opinion and don't let the satanic bishop rile you up too much, I know his arrogant ignorance can be annoying sometimes but there is simply no reasoning with some people.

Joseph Smith was a Freemason, Muhammad (pbuh) was a Prophet, there is a whole world of difference.

Peace out
A fool thinks himself to be wise,
a wise man knows himself to be a fool.

Everything is meaningless, a chasing after the wind.
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Rainerann

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Re: Do you, a free person, see Muslim females as slaves?

PostFri Mar 24, 2017 12:15 am

"Cleric Pujiono Cahyo Widianto, 43, wed the girl before thousands of people in Central Java province last August, arguing that he had committed no crime because he intended to wait until she reached puberty before consummating their relationship." http://www.foxnews.com/story/2009/03/18 ... r-old.html

"Muslim men, who are Canadian citizens or permanent residents return to their homeland to wed a "child bride" in an arranged marriage in which a dowry is given to the girl's parents. Officials said some of the brides can be 14 years old or younger and are "forced" to marry. The practice occurs in a host of countries including: Afghanistan, Iran, Pakistan and Lebanon." http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoa ... 01531.html

@ Creeper

I would never go as far to say that this reflects your character, but it is a reality that other people may not have your integrity and believe that the absence of a marrying age permitting them to marry child brides-permits them to marry children. People use this to support their decision to marry children.

I will also admit this is because people choose to sin and this is a challenge to any religion to create a distinction for itself from what humanity is naturally inclined to do. This is all the more reason to reject this claim by implementing a marrying age. However, I don't think this will happen because of how it would relect on the character of Muhammod if they did.

So people will continue to use this as a reason to marry a child, among other reasons, because pedophilia was not created by religion but by unrighteousness-and Muhammod is included in this unfortunately. He married a child as an older man. A girl who has just started her period should never be obligated to have sexual intercourse with a much older man, ever.

There are studies on this subject. An older man and a young child, even if she has started her period, still operate under different roles. The older man is in a position of authority over the child even if he feigns gaining permission from her. That is why there are laws criminilzing statutory rape, because when there is a large gap between ages, choice is relative. A preteen might even protect the perpetrator. That is why other adults intervene to protect the child and there is little done to modernize Islam in response to the information that is available on this subject.

I never said that the Quran confirmed this practice as good either. I said that Muhammad didn't need to set the example that he did. In the Bible, behaving this way has consequences. People who were called by God had consequences. I think there are consequences to marrying many wives, especially when one is a child. It sets a bad example that someone claiming to be a prophet during the time of Muhammod should have known already.

It requires people to continue arguing in his defense, when it could be very simple. Include a statue that gives a limit to the marrying age. Very simple. Instead, there is only repetitive discussion about how child marriage is part of culture. She was old enough to bleed. It doesn't say in the Quran to marry children, which is all fine. However, people do marry children and they do defend it with their faith in Islam. So maybe these are the people you should be talking about this with.
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Re: Do you, a free person, see Muslim females as slaves?

PostFri Mar 24, 2017 12:37 am

Scimitar wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:Do not expect other to do your leg work for you.

You either accept that Muslim women are chattel and slaves that are not free or you do not.

I can link you to many women who agree that they are basically slaves and when you tie in that if they turn to apostasy, they might be honor killed, then their true slavery becomes quite apparent.

Regards
DL


With no claim to authority, your claim is relegated to the "claim to ignorance" lol

Bloody heck - no one is that stupid gnostic... you just went full retard.

Never go full retard!

Scimi


All Muslims have as a claim to authority is an imaginary God si I guess to you, their claim is relegated to the "claim to ignorance.

I agree .

Now place all the potty mouth shit you want here but know that you are now on ignore.

I might even leave this site thanks to ignorant potty mouthed cock suckers like you.

I will have to see.

Regards
DL
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Gnostic Bishop

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Re: Do you, a free person, see Muslim females as slaves?

PostFri Mar 24, 2017 12:39 am

Creeper wrote:
phpBB [video]


Thanks.

I return link for link.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/masswedding.asp

Regards
DL
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Re: Do you, a free person, see Muslim females as slaves?

PostFri Mar 24, 2017 12:47 am

Rainerann wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
I mentioned and spoke to the Father Complex while you are fixated on the Oedipus Complex which is not the same at all, although I understand that the Oedipus Complex is a part of the Father Complex.

While true that Jesus and Jews called God Father, you should also know that it is true that previous to that, Jews and almost all the Eastern religions saw and described God as androgynous therefore the term Father does not apply.

It should never apply to women who should be seeking their internal Goddesses and not want to become men.

Regards
DL


There is nothing wrong with a father complex. Fathers play an important role in raising children. Christianity referring to God as a father is a way of comparing a healthy relationship between a child and their father taking them to the park or out for ice cream or some other healthy activity to our relationship with God. In a healthy relationship, the role of the father is important in developing trust and building healthy relationships outside the home.

There are also unhealthy behaviors that have nothing to do with religion and religion cannot be blamed for every unhealthy behavior until they bring those unhealthy behaviors into their writings.

However, defending Muhammad is no different than defending Joseph Smith's preoccupation with polygamy. People still think Mormons do good things. Mormon's still read the Bible, but Joseph Smith cannot be defended no matter how benevolent we are told Mormonism is today. It is the same thing with Islam. Muhammad cannot be defended and what it says about marrying a child cannot be removed because of how it will reflect on the character of Muhammad. This is why it has to be defended and it can't be removed because there would be no more Islam if you were to consider the behavior of the prophet wrong.

If he was a prophet of God, he didn't need another wife period. He didn't need a wife who was a child. He didn't need to include this in his teachings. This cannot be defended no matter how anyone tries. There is no similar account of any other prophet in the Old Testament. A prophet would usually devote his life to God. There are few references of them even having one wife, much less many, and none where they were children. So there is a difference between our faiths that you seem to forget. Yes, Christianity refers to God as Father, but at no point do I have to defend Christ marrying a child or any other prophet throughout the Bible. I never have that obligation.

I know that you don't like the Bible, but in the Bible, when someone does something like marry a child when they have several other wives, the Bible expresses that there are consequences to this. When David committed adultery, there was a consequence. When Solomon committed idolatry, there was a consequence. It is clearly conveyed that there is a consequence to our actions throughout the Bible. The consequence is not given in Islam, but it remains that a consequence of Muhammad marrying a child is that this religion can never really be taken seriously without force, and it makes all Abrahamic religions look bad to people like you who cannot separate the differences between them.

I will never defend marrying a child for any reason on top of the fact that she was one of his many wives. Christ said to have one wife and the two will become one flesh (Mark 10:8). Five people cannot become one flesh. Yet they say they believe Christ is a prophet even though Muhammad contradicts the words of Christ so often in his behaviors. No leader should behave as Muhammad did and continue being venerated as a prophet.


This is the father Complex I spoke of.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_complex

It has nothing to do with a person's parent in the way you were talking of, although it is handed down from our parents. It is more of our internal instincts that push us to be the fittest of our species.

As to the bible, it was a good part of what helped me reach apotheosis and I am thankful in that sense for it.

To do so though, I had to read it the Gnostic Christian way and not the way Christians read it.

I found this old blurb of mine on this issue.

----------

I keep a bible in the house even though I think this quote quite correct.

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Then again, I am a Gnostic Christian and know how to read the filth in it.


Said of Gnostic Christian versus Christian bible reading practices.

“Both read the Bible day and night; but you read black where I read white.”
William Blake.

I would take this further and advise you to read any scriptures from as many POV as is within you. Question everything including yourself.

The bible, if read as a book of wisdom, does have much wisdom though.

You just have to read it the way Gnostics do and revers a lot of the Christian morals.

Christians call evil good while Gnostic Christians call evil, evil.

I E. Gnostic Christians think that bible God, the demiurge to us, is quite immoral for thinking that torturing King David's baby for 6 days before finally killing it is good justice. Gnostic Christians think that evil while Christians think that a good form of justice.

Which group do you think is right?

Regards
DL
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Re: Do you, a free person, see Muslim females as slaves?

PostFri Mar 24, 2017 12:51 am

Rainerann wrote:[ No leader should behave as Muhammad did and continue being venerated as a prophet.


Snipped for brevity but we are one on this.

Regards
DL
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Re: Do you, a free person, see Muslim females as slaves?

PostFri Mar 24, 2017 1:12 am

Gnostic Bishop wrote:Do not expect other to do your leg work for you.

You either accept that Muslim women are chattel and slaves that are not free or you do not.


I accept you are ignorant :D I'm not gonna hate you for it. I just think you should spend less time on the web and more time within padded cells, dressed in strait jackets. You seem a little, uncaged. dangerous even.

Gnostic Bishop wrote:Now place all the potty mouth shit you want here but know that you are now on ignore.

I might even leave this site thanks to ignorant potty mouthed cock suckers like you.

I will have to see.

Regards
DL


Wait, did you just try fighting talk then run off by blocking me dude? WOW, is this the art of fighting without fighting Bruce lee was trying to teach us about? You badass !!! :D

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Rainerann wrote:[ No leader should behave as Muhammad did and continue being venerated as a prophet.


Snipped for brevity but we are one on this.


If ignorance was married to arrogance, you two would be reigning King n Queen! ;)

Scimi
Image


I have nothing to do with any recommendations to join any war on any person , race or community. I do not support ISIS nor any other movement, I seek opportunities to unite mankind, I seek to look at common ground and choose to ignore differences. I do not support violence, I condemn it. I have no affiliations with any promoting of violence be it political, racial or religious.
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Re: Do you, a free person, see Muslim females as slaves?

PostFri Mar 24, 2017 3:50 am

I just got home from taking my daughter to one of her classes. The class before her was released and as I looked at the little girls, I realized how bizarre it is that people spend any time defending whether in another time or place it would be okay to marry a girl so small.

There is a police car with sirens on as we are driving home and my daughter and me have a conversation about why we pull over to the side of the road so that we don't obstruct emergency services vehicles. I think to myself, how was I even having a discussion about child marriage just before this. My sweet little girl doesn't even understand why I can't drive while the sirens are on, but some people defend that girls this young are ready to choose whether they want to get married.

My daughter is a preteen. She likes these cute little shows on YouTube called Seven Super Girls. These young girls put on little skits and are super smart, cute little girls that look like they have healthy families so I let my daughter watch their show. Now I think how bizarre it is that somewhere away from this safe, cute world I was trying to mold for my daughter, there are girls their age being told they are old enough to marry. People discuss this in order to defend their religion rather than intervene and just stop it. That it is more important to defend the honor of Muhammad than to let these other little girls have the same opportunity to a safe, cute life that they should have.

Being old enough to bleed is not old enough to get married or old enough to decide whether you want to get married period. There is no reason why this can't be made a law in order to let children have a childhood. It is so simple, make a law giving a minimum age to marry. Protect young girls. So simple, yet instead of doing this, there are continual debates defending Muhammad's choice to marry a girl who was way too young for him. Such a waste of time and misplaced priorities. Justice is more important than protecting a prophet who behaved recklessly and does not have a record of the consequences of this behavior. His actions are whitewashed as though he were the only blameless prophet who ever lived. This is why I am grateful for the Bible. You could be a prophet and if you did something like this, you can be sure the consequences and the response of the Almighty would be included in the testimony. Transparent.

So I looked up more on the subject because I saw so many little girls today. I was further reminded that I am the adult now and if I don't say something, no one will. I found some rather interesting commentary on the subject that reiterated to me that the Muslim community which continues to rebuke people who question the behavior of their prophet, should be rebuking people like this instead of wasting their time defending their prophet from people who don't care either way. The only thing I care about is children having an opportunity to have a better life.

"A man can marry a girl younger than nine years of age, even if the girl is still a baby being breastfed. A man, however is prohibited from having intercourse with a girl younger than nine, other sexual acts such as foreplay, rubbing, kissing and sodomy is allowed. A man having intercourse with a girl younger than nine years of age has not committed a crime, but only an infraction, if the girl is not permanently damaged. If the girl, however, is permanently damaged, the man must provide for her all her life. But this girl will not count as one of the man's four permanent wives. He also is not permitted to marry the girl's sister. The late Ayatollah Khomeini of Iran, Supreme Leader of the Islamic Revolution https://tinyurl.com/lnghngr

"Child marriage in Islam is permissible. In the Koran there is no specific age of marriage...[If the government imposed new laws against child marriage] There will be violent conflict from the Muslims, saying that 'no, we will not accept this, we'd rather die than accept something which is not a law from Allah." Ahmed Sani Yerima, former governor and current senator of Zamfara State, Nigeria

"...If she is married without her permission, by threat or coercion, then the marriage is not valid. The only exeption is in the case of the father and his daughter who is less than nine years of age. There is no harm if he gets her married while she is less than nine years old, according to the correct opinion. This is based on the messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) marrying Aisha without her consent when she was less than nine years old, as is stated in authentic Hadith.." http://web.archive.org/web/200402161513 ... riage.html

"Sheikh Hamoud Hashim al-Tharihi is general secretary of the increasingly influential Vice and Virtue Committee and a member of the Islah Party. He cites the example of the Prophet Muhammad who married six-year-old Aisha but waited for consummation till she was a little older.
"Because this happened to the Prophet, we cannot tell people that it is prohibited to marry at an early age," he argues. Moreover, he claims it would harm society by spreading vice."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7711554.stm

These people should be rebuked, not the people who object to the possibility of child marriage within areas under the authority of Islamic law. Why doesn't the Islamic community rebuke these people?
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