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Hell

Philosophical and metaphysical/spiritual discussions non specific to religion.
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Creeper

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Re: Hell

PostThu Feb 02, 2017 6:46 pm

KoncreteMind wrote:
Creeper wrote:Even if everyone acted in the most morally upright way, with love, empathy, compassion and sympathy towards all other forms of life, there would still be death, pain and suffering in abundance.

This life is only the entertainment of delusion.


Woah Creeper, I was with you up until this lol

Why do you feel this way?


Because no matter what we do in this life, it is utterly meaningless (Ecclesiastes 1).

I am also of the belief that everything that happens is the Will of God, that includes natural disasters, the plots of the shayateen and yes, even the election of Donald Trump. :lol:

Every soul must taste death.
Everything that has a beginning, must have an end.

10:56
It is He Who gives life, and causes death, and to Him you (all) shall return.

57:20
Know that the life of this world is but amusement and diversion and adornment and boasting to one another and competition in increase of wealth and children - like the example of a rain whose [resulting] plant growth pleases the tillers; then it dries and you see it turned yellow; then it becomes [scattered] debris. And in the Hereafter is severe punishment and forgiveness from Allah and approval. And what is the worldly life except the enjoyment of delusion?

Matthew 5:43-45
You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbour and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

I know I can seem pretty grim sometimes, but recognising that nothing truly matters actually gives me a great deal of hope, when I am not destroying my brain by worrying and thinking too much about Allah's apparent indifference towards His creation. I am weird like that....

"It's like, I don't care about nothing man..." - Afroman

May the peace and blessings of The God be upon you
A fool thinks himself to be wise,
a wise man knows himself to be a fool.

Everything is meaningless, a chasing after the wind.
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Thy Unveiling

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Re: Hell

PostThu Feb 02, 2017 9:28 pm

Those seem the words of a truly broken man "living" in his own personal hell.

I feel sorry for you. You speak of hope, yet you don't have any.
"It's this house that's gone mad! I'm as sane as can be!" ~ICP; Madhouse
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Re: Hell

PostThu Feb 02, 2017 10:50 pm

Thy Unveiling wrote:Those seem the words of a truly broken man "living" in his own personal hell.

I feel sorry for you. You speak of hope, yet you don't have any.


You know me too well...

:lolno:
A fool thinks himself to be wise,
a wise man knows himself to be a fool.

Everything is meaningless, a chasing after the wind.
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Thy Unveiling

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Re: Hell

PostThu Feb 02, 2017 11:19 pm

Indeed I do.

But you know I still have hope. And I believe that will eventually be enough for you to find your little mustard seed of hope again. Not just in a romantic sense, but in other areas of life as well. The lyrics of that old annoyingly catchy Chumba Wumba song should be true for everyone. "I get knocked down, but I get up again cuz you're never gonna keep me down."

You're better and stronger than this, Creep. Find yourself again.
"It's this house that's gone mad! I'm as sane as can be!" ~ICP; Madhouse
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Karlysymon

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Re: Hell

PostFri Feb 03, 2017 1:16 pm

Continuing to run with Koncrete's "near death experience" story.

Study Claims Your Life Really Does Flash Before Your Eyes Right Before You Die (Just Like an Ayahuasca Trip)

A new study has suggested that our lives really do flash before our eyes right before we die. Researchers from Jerusalem’s Hadassah University have
studied people who have
claimed to have had “near death experiences” and found that the parts of the brain which store our memories fail last….............
DMT is widely considered to be one of the most potent
psychedelics known to man. It is well-established that the pineal gland, also known as the third eye or “all-seeing eye,” releases massive quantities of the chemical dimethyltriptamine just before death AND that the brain, otherwise mysteriously, still functions for several minutes after we die..............
The reports are just like what a person who has had a near death experience recounts, including a loss of a sense of time, lights in tunnels, heaven, seeing deceased loved ones again, reliving memories,and finally, gaining a whole new perspective on their lives and connection to others around them and God afterward.

http://truthstreammedia.com/2017/01/31/ ... admt-trip/
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KoncreteMind

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Re: Hell

PostSat Feb 04, 2017 3:02 pm

Creeper wrote:Because no matter what we do in this life, it is utterly meaningless (Ecclesiastes 1).


Do you think its meaningless for you to worship the Most High? Or if you saw a child in trouble, to save him or her? Or for your loved ones, is your presence meaningless? Im not sure why you feel He is indifferent either, but Im also not trying to push a seemingly touchy issue here. I just feel like saying, no matter your thoughts, YOU and your actions DO matter. No matter if they're good or bad it does matter and it does effect the world around you.
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Re: Hell

PostSat Feb 04, 2017 3:45 pm

Karlysymon wrote:Koncrete, that is a cute little story and personally iam skeptical of those kinds of 'trips' because:
1) the bible is very clear about the state of the dead. Neither is ascended to heaven nor descended to hell.

Iam not a doctor but it has been said that at the time one is pronounced clinically dead, one's brain cells remain active for up to 8hrs. And that if hypothermic conditions are induced so that the cells have much longer 'battery life', one can 'come back to life'. So in those 8hrs any thing can happen. One can see a thousand angels or 10,000 butterflies.

2)some interesting recent events. Those kinds of journeys, to heaven ofcourse, have been dubbed 'Heaven tourism'. So i guess 'Hell tourism' works too. With countless books making the bestseller list There was a huge heaven tourism scandal that required the recalling of books. It was a year or two ago. Some kid who lied about the whole thing. Why is it, pretty much always, in a near death experience that people get to see hell or heaven. Is it because subconsciously they are worried about their final reward? And televangelists regale the audience with laughable stories such as 'i went to heaven and God showed me my mansion and was given a tin of paint which i tossed up in the air and my mansion was perfectly painted'. Like, really???
Ofcourse people who have NDEs will come away spiritual but for me, legitimate trips to heaven are :personal/literal/physical, as in the entire person-mind, body and soul such as the translation of Enoch, Elijah and Jesus. Or in a vision, like the prophets. They were fully conscious, alive and kicking, not clinically dead. Just my pov...
http://www.challies.com/articles/heaven-tourism
http://christianitytoday.com/gleanings/ ... eaven.html


1. Im skeptical too about it, especially with what he said he said before being taken to where he was taken. But the change afterwards, is what really piqued my interest rather than a story I couldnt prove to be true.. I'd just say being declared dead and actually being dead are two different things, AND also in the bible, Saul channeled the prophet Samuel and Samuel arose and told him to stop or that it was wrong for him to do so(paraphrasing). How did that happen in your opinion?

2. It could have very well been a vision. Or a dream. Or a lie. I cant answer for what someone else said happened to them. In the bible though, Ezekiel was taken out of his body in a vision multiple times in his book, one of which, he was taken to being in between heaven and earth, before being dropped elsewhere.

As I said, with this, and the change that happened afterwards, you would have had to be there. Everything I could give out to explain the "change" and why I thought the guy was an angel/demon or possessed with one or the other, would be anecdotal. And Im not trying to convince or even give off any insinuation that Im trying to convince anyone of anything concerning this. Its just an experience I experienced in regards to the topic of "hell". It was literally (imo) for my eyes and my eyes only I guess, because people wouldnt believe what I witnessed/experienced around the guy.

With that said, my definition of "spiritual" and the average person's definition of spiritual is not the same. So the type of "spiritual" person I say he came back as, is not the average person who may think memorizing verses or going to temples/churches/mosques, or hanging with certain groups of people that believes similarly is what that exemplifies being "spiritual" is about. With me and my take, Its more of a way of life type of thing and how the world reacts to YOU. But again, its anecdotal (as in you had to be there) and I dont want to get too much into it because Im not trying to convince anyone of anecdotal stories. This was more of me just trying to connect an experience in my own life that I had to the topic. Its kinda like having a vision I guess to where you know what you saw and experienced but others probably wouldnt believe what you saw/experienced if you told them. Then again, I dont think most people have visions which are different than dreams...
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Thy Unveiling

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Re: Hell

PostSat Feb 04, 2017 4:19 pm

KoncreteMind wrote:
Creeper wrote:Because no matter what we do in this life, it is utterly meaningless (Ecclesiastes 1).


Do you think its meaningless for you to worship the Most High? Or if you saw a child in trouble, to save him or her? Or for your loved ones, is your presence meaningless? Im not sure why you feel He is indifferent either, but Im also not trying to push a seemingly touchy issue here. I just feel like saying, no matter your thoughts, YOU and your actions DO matter. No matter if they're good or bad it does matter and it does effect the world around you.


I read the entirety of the "scripture" he loves so much. I don't understand why he gravitates towards poison placed by man in the Books. There is nothing positive to be learned from that piece, having clearly been written by man to install a feeling of hopelessness and apathy, thoughts of "Why bother?" Personally I feel it's further evident that the book has been tampered with. Because, y'know, King James' name on the cover doesn't seem to get that through people's heads. But yeah, that bit of Scripture explains why he's such a miserable git half the time.

I agree with you, Konkrete.

Edit to add: Much like your anecdotes about your friend, I cannot prove to you that visions are different from dreams. I can only speak from my own experiences, which likely mean nothing to you. But dreams happen while I'm sleeping. Or daydreaming, although I control my daydreams since really it's just wishing with my heart and mind. Visions, otoh, come at random while awake and are usually followed by Something which adds legitimacy (imo) to the vision I just had. But again, I cannot prove this to you.
"It's this house that's gone mad! I'm as sane as can be!" ~ICP; Madhouse
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Karlysymon

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Re: Hell

PostSun Feb 05, 2017 12:22 am

Koncrete Mind wrote:AND also in the bible,
Saul channeled the prophet Samuel and Samuel arose and
told him to stop or that it was wrong for him to do so
(paraphrasing). How did that
happen in your opinion?

Ofcourse iam incapable of explaining the mechanics of such appearances but given what the Bible speaks about the state of the dead, any apparitions of dead people are demons, whether Marian or otherwise. And God, time and again warns us about consulting the dead. Here are some verses:
Isaiah 8:19
When men tell you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, shouldn't a people enquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living?
Ecclesiastes 9:5-6,10
For the living know that they will die but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, even the memory of them is forgotten.......never again will they have a PART in ANYTHING that happens under the sun........ Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the grave where you are going, there is NEITHER working, planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.
Psalm 6:5
No one remebers you when he is dead. Who praises you from his grave?

King Hezekiah, when God gave him 15 more years of life after an illness wrote:
Isaiah 38:11,18-19
I said, "i will not again see the Lord in the land of the living;no longer will i look on mankind or be with those who now dwell in this world.....for the grave cannot praise you, death cannot sing your praise;those who go down to the pit cannot hope for your faithfulness. The living, the living-they praise you, as iam doing today.

There are many other verses but those few show different writers in different eras, all in agreement about the matter.
1 Chronicles 10:13-14
Saul died because he was unfaithful to the Lord; he didn't keep the word of the Lord and even consulted a medium for guidance and didn't enquire of the Lord. So the Lord put him to death and turned the kingdom over to David son of Jesse.
Leviticus 19:31 & 20:6,27
Do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists, for you will be defiled by them. Iam the Lord your God

If satan (and his demons) has the ability to masquerade as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14), even impersonate Christ, to perform great signs and miracles (Matthew 24:24), then its obvious he can show up as any one's deceased relative.
Koncrete Mind wrote:As I said, with this, and the
change that happened afterwards, you would have had to be there. Everything I could give out to explain the "change" and why I thought the guy was an angel/demon or possessed with one or the other, would be anecdotal. And Im not trying to convince or even give off any
insinuation that Im trying to
convince anyone of anything
concerning this. Its just an
experience I experienced in regards to the topic of "hell". It was literally (imo) for my eyes and my eyes only I guess, because people wouldnt believe what I witnessed/experienced around the guy. With that said, my definition of "spiritual" and the average
person's definition of spiritual is not the same. So the type of "spiritual" person I say he came back as, is not the average person who may think memorizing verses or going to temples/churches/mosques, or hanging with certain groups of people that believes similarly is what that exemplifies being "spiritual" is about. With me and my take, Its more of a way
of life type of thing and how the world reacts to YOU. But again, its anecdotal (as in you had to be there) and I dont want to get too much into it because Im not trying to convince anyone of
anecdotal stories. This was
more of me just trying to
connect an experience in my
own life that I had to the topic. Its kinda like having a vision I guess to where you know what you saw and experienced but others probably wouldnt believe what you saw/experienced if you told them.

I already believe you and understood your perspective. You do not have to convince anyone. It was a great thing to bring it up and explore this angle of hell. Would have loved to have witnessed it though.... Like that study i brought up in my last post, all NDEs are pretty much similar....lots of light, heaven, hell etc and people get spiritual when they 'return'.
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Re: Hell

PostSun Feb 05, 2017 4:15 am

Thy Unveiling wrote:
KoncreteMind wrote:
Creeper wrote:Because no matter what we do in this life, it is utterly meaningless (Ecclesiastes 1).


Do you think its meaningless for you to worship the Most High? Or if you saw a child in trouble, to save him or her? Or for your loved ones, is your presence meaningless? Im not sure why you feel He is indifferent either, but Im also not trying to push a seemingly touchy issue here. I just feel like saying, no matter your thoughts, YOU and your actions DO matter. No matter if they're good or bad it does matter and it does effect the world around you.


I read the entirety of the "scripture" he loves so much. I don't understand why he gravitates towards poison placed by man in the Books. There is nothing positive to be learned from that piece, having clearly been written by man to install a feeling of hopelessness and apathy, thoughts of "Why bother?" Personally I feel it's further evident that the book has been tampered with. Because, y'know, King James' name on the cover doesn't seem to get that through people's heads. But yeah, that bit of Scripture explains why he's such a miserable git half the time.

I agree with you, Konkrete.

Edit to add: Much like your anecdotes about your friend, I cannot prove to you that visions are different from dreams. I can only speak from my own experiences, which likely mean nothing to you. But dreams happen while I'm sleeping. Or daydreaming, although I control my daydreams since really it's just wishing with my heart and mind. Visions, otoh, come at random while awake and are usually followed by Something which adds legitimacy (imo) to the vision I just had. But again, I cannot prove this to you.


I think we all have our bouts of being down (at least I do). I sometimes question the same things, as in why God doesnt speak to us. Why didnt He end all this negativity before I was even born (let alone now). Why He allows revolutionaries to be killed and silenced, but fake sellouts to prosper and become rich. If I have a streak of bad misfortune, I question what I did or why the Most High allows it to happen even though Im at least trying to be righteous. So I definitely see where he's coming from. I just try not to stay in that state and instead pick myself up and continue pushing forward. Because in my estimation, I owe all things to the Creator and He owes me NOTHING. So anything He puts me through, it is what it is because what can I say that I did for Him that shows that I DESERVE better? He has given me life, food, shelter, water etc.. but what can I say I have given Him that He would not have had had I not given Him? I try to think like this, to correct myself when Im getting too touchy against Him. Anyways, hopefully for Creeper, its just a phase. But he (and you since you two seem to be close)would understand if thats the case or not better than I..

As far as your thoughts on visions being different than dreams, I agree. They definitely are different. I was just saying that a vision is for your eyes and experience. You telling me about your vision, will not have the same effect that you experiencing your vision had on you. I was just comparing that to what I saw from my friend and how I could say "well this happened" or "that happened" but it would not have the same effect as me experiencing it.
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