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Thunderian wrote:I just don't see God using the
same symbol for Christ's chaste virgin bride as he uses for fallen
and immoral institutions like
Israel and the Roman Catholic
You didn't answer my question. Did Christ die for a virgin or an ordinary woman? Eph 5 says nothing about a bride. It clearly says "He gave up Himself for her". When Christ died on the cross, what was "her" status? And you keep saying the Church existed after Christ. So who was she that He was dying for?
In regard to Joseph's dream (iam sure you re-read the chapter). Why does Jacob say the moon represents his mother. Yet, in the end, she never made it to Egypt? As i said before, the dream was a foreshadowing of Joseph's glory. Jacob may not have known it at the time but in a way, God was telling him that he would see his son again. The dreams were also meant to 'cushion' Joseph in the difficult times that he would endure. (Iam speaking from experience in this case). To give him hope that the hell he would endure for 13yrs wouldn't last forever. He had the dreams at 17. Continuing to use Joseph's dream doesn't help in explaining the 12 stars in the woman's crown. Besides, they were 11 stars bowing to one star.
If Jesus Christ is the bridegroom, who is the bride and remember the bride of Christ is a chaste virgin..
You are correct. The church is. And what does scripture say about the 144,000? "These are those who didn't defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure.... No lie was found in their mouths: they are blameless" Rev 14:4-5. In chap 15, they were victorious over the beast, his image and the number of his name. How do we know they are the same group spoken of here? They sing the song of Moses and the Lamb. Remember in chap 14, no one could learn that song except them (vs 3). They are around during the tribulation because the emerge triumphant. How is it possible that no one else can learn a song? A simple song? Care to elaborate on this? Only 'chaste virgins' are going to heaven (psalm 15:1-5, Heb 12:14)
And what about all the prophecy regarding Israel's
revival as a nation in the End
Times? There's kind of a lot.
Israel as it is in M:E has no bearing in eschatology. Since Christ ascended, everyone has been given time to come to Christ. When that time expires, that's it. Revival of Israel as a nation, never going to happen. Someone once said, if you are waiting for the entire church to be revived, that time will never come! If that can be true for my local church, same would go for Israel. Christ said "I have other sheep that 1en't of this sheep pen. I must bring them also" john 10:16. Those prophecies, i believe are about Spiritual Israel: you, me and the christian jew. Symbolised by the Laodicean church. A revival has to happen to make ready a people for the Lord. Thats why He said He would send the prophet Elijah before that great and dreadful day of the Lord (Malachi 4:5). Clearly a translated Elijah isn't going to return to earth to revive a Middle eastern nation of Israel. As you know, Elijah's ministry was about revival, as was that of John the Baptist. Christ isn't returning until such a work has been done.
Yes, you would be wrong. Noah
and his family are not part of
the Church. If they were, why
did Noah offer sacrifices? As the
Church, Jesus Christ is our
sacrifice. If Noah or anyone else in the Old Testament were part
of the Church, what were their
Fine. If iam wrong, let me ask you this. When Elijah thought he was the only one left on God's side, God told him i have 7000 who haven't bowed the knee to Baal. Imagine you are narrating that story to your son, how would you describe that group or any other group that has pledged allegiance to God? If you say "people on God's side", how do we call "people on God's side in our day"?
How can the Church be an
adulterous woman and also a
God is willing to overlook and wipe away our spiritual adultery if we are willing to repent. I already explained what spiritual chastity is in regard to 144, 000. The Holy Spirit has to produce that condition in us. Aren't we supposed to die to sin and be born again? As though we have never been defiled by sin? Sanctification (to be made holy) is a life long work.
I believe there will be no rapture. Christ is coming to resurrect the righteous dead and redeem the living righteous. Is righteousness worn as garment. Can you tell your pastor is righteous just by him standing before you? I gave you more that 2 verses. Christ is coming with His angels, always depicted as dressed in white/linen. Rev 19 clearly stated that the white raiment means righteousness. "Abraham believed and it was credited to him righteousness".
Where can I find that part about
12 spiritual tribes in the Bible?
It isn't there. Its only logical. If ancient Israel was made up of 12 tribes then it goes to show that spiritual Israel would be made up of 12 spiritual tribes, to which 144,000 belong. And they are chaste!
Angels are righteous. Hence they were white linen.
As for Rev 12, lemme put it this way: the dragon gave the sea beast his power, throne and authority and men worshipped the dragon because of that beast (Rev 13:2, 4). The earth beast exercised all its authority on behalf of the sea beast. So these two entities are doing the drago's bidding. Same as Nero. Even if Herod wasn't roman, he did Satan's bidding and existed in the Roman epoch.
Just wanted to say, thanx for the converstion (not that its ending) but i've ended up examining and going down roads i never thought i would go. Thank you and God bless!