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Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Theological and spiritual discussions within the context of a religious framework.
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KoncreteMind

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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

PostThu Dec 29, 2016 4:59 am

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
If, as a parent, you would let a supernatural entity temp your children into doing what you thought wrong, then I do not think you would make a decent parent, especially if like with A & E, you put the tempter right there so that the dirty deed could be done.

Regards
DL


Your opinion of what makes a decent "Creator" (since we're talking about MORE than a parent who doesnt know past from future, and doesnt hold ALL or the MOST knowledge in regards to all of existence) is irrelevant. You and I are both the creations, so how can we turn our nose and tell the Creator how He should or should not have handled things?

The FACT of the story is that Adam and Eve were given a CHOICE and let known of the consequences. They chose, wrong, so they got the consequences. The blame is on them and no one else..
Last edited by KoncreteMind on Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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KoncreteMind

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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

PostThu Dec 29, 2016 5:29 am

Gnostic Bishop wrote:God also had a free will to protect his children andf did not.


Of course not. Because that would interfere with the free will He gave Adam and Eve.

That aside, here is the so called free will you are talking about.


Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin. That being the case, for God to punish us for following the instincts and natures he put in us would be quite wrong.

Psalm 51:5 "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me."

Your free will gambit is thus refuted.

Regards
DL


Its not a hard concept at all. They were in a place, where they had ALL they needed and didnt have to work very hard for anything. They only had ONE command which was not to eat from the tree. They went ahead and did it anyway and by doing this, they lost their original state and got a lesser one that included a sin nature. At least, thats what we get if we read the bible. Blaming God for that, is absolving the decisions that Adam and Eve made themselves. You dont absolve humans of their decisions because a Creator exists do you? Then again, I've asked several questions to you and they dont seem to get answered. Believe me, no harm no foul, but if you're not willing to address the things I SAY, like I do the things YOU SAY, then thats fine. As I said, I'll leave you to your pulpit. Just thought I'd give it one more go before ending it since the board isnt that active and this is probably the most active topic. If you wish to just spill out your gnostic interpretation then let me leave you to it.
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StarTemple

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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

PostThu Dec 29, 2016 6:28 am

Gnostic Bishop wrote:Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Is it a sin to want to open one’s eyes instead of being blind?

Is it a sin to do as scriptures urge us to do?

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Gen 3:2 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

Adam and Eve were doing exactly what we are all told by scriptures to do, yet God seemed quite upset.

Why is seeking knowledge and ignoring a vile command to remain in ignorant bliss wrong or a sin?

Are you sinning when you seek knowledge and becoming more like God?

Regards
DL


God designed all brains, anything with a brain is designed to respond to knowledge.

The Genesis tree is a certain area of knowledge now beign experimented with in government, especially world government.

That was the kind of knowledge man was never to seek, because it is in God's domain alone. Don't worry, eating the fruit was only going to result in a Devil guided form of that knowledge, not the real thing, for that knowledge was not in the fruit, it was just a test object to see if man would be obedient fully.

So, human can try to find this knowledge, but they never can attain it, EVER. It goes back to God via the Son of God transition, he knows it as per Col 2:3 and Rev4-5. But, he is superhuman, perfect and from the divine source and sanctioned as such by Almighty God.

Since humans only know the good, eating that fruit only reveals the evil now. THAT is wll that can be attained with death, from that tree.

All the other knowledge is free, but with religions and human knowledge let the learner beware. The Bible has perfect initial knowledge, it cannot be judged by the activity of profit based religions of Christendumb.
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Gnostic Bishop

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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

PostThu Dec 29, 2016 4:07 pm

Just as you skip over the fact that God would have been there when his new children were being tempted by a supernatural entity that Eve could not resist and yet did nothing.

I look at the moral aspects of the Genesis myth and why God would allow the temptation if he did not want it to happen.

You might wonder why the Christian hymn Exsultet says that Adams sin was a happy fault and necessary to God's plan.

It is good that your are an esoteric ecumenist, I think, like I am but you are adding to the story to suit your own biases.

Scriptures say not to.

Regards
DL
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

PostThu Dec 29, 2016 4:14 pm

KoncreteMind wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
If, as a parent, you would let a supernatural entity temp your children into doing what you thought wrong, then I do not think you would make a decent parent, especially if like with A & E, you put the tempter right there so that the dirty deed could be done.

Regards
DL


Your opinion of what makes a decent "Creator" (since we're talking about MORE than a parent who doesnt know past from future, and doesnt hold ALL or the MOST knowledge in regards to all of existence) is irrelevant. You and I are both the creations, so how can we turn our nose and tell the Creator how He should or should not have handled things?

The FACT of the story is that Adam and Eve were given a CHOICE and let known of the consequences. They chose, wrong, so they got the consequences. The blame is on them and no one else..


The did not choose wrong.

To choose, knowledge is required of what you are choosing between.

The tree of knowledge holds all possible knowledge and their place on the good and evil graph.
A & E had no knowledge of anything and could not have even had the desire to choose. They could not see a choice because, as scriptures say, they were mentally blind.

That lack of desire is why they did not reproduce till after eating of the tree of knowledge.

Regards
DL
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Gnostic Bishop

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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

PostThu Dec 29, 2016 4:19 pm

KoncreteMind wrote:[q

Your opinion of what makes a decent "Creator" (since we're talking about MORE than a parent who doesnt know past from future, and doesnt hold ALL or the MOST knowledge in regards to all of existence) is irrelevant. You and I are both the creations, so how can we turn our nose and tell the Creator how He should or should not have handled things?



A decent creator, if you believe in that creator fantasy, is not shown in Eden as he murdered A & E by neglect and locking away what would have kept them alive. The tree of life.

I don't know what you think good parenting is but just letting your children die when you could save them is not a good parenting trait.

We charge J W with a crime when they do not care for their children properly and let them die, from lack of a blood transfusion, for instance.

Would you give God a pass on his murder of A & E?

Regards
DL
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Gnostic Bishop

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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

PostThu Dec 29, 2016 4:25 pm

KoncreteMind wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:God also had a free will to protect his children andf did not.


Of course not. Because that would interfere with the free will He gave Adam and Eve.

That aside, here is the so called free will you are talking about.


Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin. That being the case, for God to punish us for following the instincts and natures he put in us would be quite wrong.

Psalm 51:5 "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me."

Your free will gambit is thus refuted.

Regards
DL


Its not a hard concept at all. They were in a place, where they had ALL they needed and didnt have to work very hard for anything. They only had ONE command which was not to eat from the tree. They went ahead and did it anyway and by doing this, they lost their original state and got a lesser one that included a sin nature. At least, thats what we get if we read the bible. Blaming God for that, is absolving the decisions that Adam and Eve made themselves. You dont absolve humans of their decisions because a Creator exists do you? Then again, I've asked several questions to you and they dont seem to get answered. Believe me, no harm no foul, but if you're not willing to address the things I SAY, like I do the things YOU SAY, then thats fine. As I said, I'll leave you to your pulpit. Just thought I'd give it one more go before ending it since the board isnt that active and this is probably the most active topic. If you wish to just spill out your gnostic interpretation then let me leave you to it.


Command and consequences negate freedom of choice.

If free to choose one option, then they should be free to choose any other option without a huge consequence being imposed by the one giving the freedom and command.

My views are more Jewish than Gnostic Christian but I do recognize the original wisdom of Eden as our place of elevation and not our fall.

Imagine if A & E had not reached out for knowledge. They would have remained bling to knowledge of reproduction and nothing in Eden would ever change and we would not be here.

Regards
DL
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Gnostic Bishop

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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

PostThu Dec 29, 2016 4:31 pm

StarTemple wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Is it a sin to want to open one’s eyes instead of being blind?

Is it a sin to do as scriptures urge us to do?

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Gen 3:2 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

Adam and Eve were doing exactly what we are all told by scriptures to do, yet God seemed quite upset.

Why is seeking knowledge and ignoring a vile command to remain in ignorant bliss wrong or a sin?

Are you sinning when you seek knowledge and becoming more like God?

Regards
DL


God designed all brains, anything with a brain is designed to respond to knowledge.

The Genesis tree is a certain area of knowledge now beign experimented with in government, especially world government.

That was the kind of knowledge man was never to seek, because it is in God's domain alone. Don't worry, eating the fruit was only going to result in a Devil guided form of that knowledge, not the real thing, for that knowledge was not in the fruit, it was just a test object to see if man would be obedient fully.

So, human can try to find this knowledge, but they never can attain it, EVER. It goes back to God via the Son of God transition, he knows it as per Col 2:3 and Rev4-5. But, he is superhuman, perfect and from the divine source and sanctioned as such by Almighty God.

Since humans only know the good, eating that fruit only reveals the evil now. THAT is wll that can be attained with death, from that tree.

All the other knowledge is free, but with religions and human knowledge let the learner beware. The Bible has perfect initial knowledge, it cannot be judged by the activity of profit based religions of Christendumb.


So you think God created people too stupid to ever rule themselves.

So much for his creating talents.

You have God creating man so that man can be his make work project.

How droll. Eternity must be quire boring for God.

Strange that scriptures say that we are to strive to be as perfect as God while you say we can never get there.

Someone is wrong.

Regards
DL
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Gnostic Bishop

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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

PostThu Dec 29, 2016 4:34 pm

StarTemple wrote:[

sanctioned as such by Almighty God.



As an aside.

God cannot be almighty when he can only create people too stupid to emulate him while saying he wants us to emulate him.

Regards
DL
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StarTemple

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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

PostThu Dec 29, 2016 11:40 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:Just as you skip over the fact that God would have been there when his new children were being tempted by a supernatural entity that Eve could not resist and yet did nothing.

I look at the moral aspects of the Genesis myth and why God would allow the temptation if he did not want it to happen.

You might wonder why the Christian hymn Exsultet says that Adams sin was a happy fault and necessary to God's plan.

It is good that your are an esoteric ecumenist, I think, like I am but you are adding to the story to suit your own biases.

Scriptures say not to.

Regards
DL


He did do something, the promise of Genesis 3:15, the first prophecy. It is just universal scale solutions are not over night affairs, so the instant gratification crew gets bored into other pursuits of mental diversion very easily.

The test continues.

Because world government is on the way over these 15 years or so, it will be a clear global sign of the Christ arrival, because he will not arrive until they are ready for the war with him.

As we get there you will recall those words, because in time you have to realize it is the truth; what you do with it is up to you.
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