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Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Theological and spiritual discussions within the context of a religious framework.
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Gnostic Bishop

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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

PostFri Dec 30, 2016 5:24 pm

Speculative supernatural faith based nonsense.

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DL
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KoncreteMind

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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

PostFri Dec 30, 2016 9:14 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
The did not choose wrong.

To choose, knowledge is required of what you are choosing between.


If they werent wrong, the world would be in a better place, and not in a worse place. As well, only YOU assume they had no knowledge before eating from the tree. That isnt biblical though...

The tree of knowledge holds all possible knowledge and their place on the good and evil graph.


False. The CREATOR, who was with them in the garden, who created them AND the tree, holds ALL possible knowledge. Yet instead of going to Him, they went to the tree for knowledge. The very same tree, they were told to NOT go to. So for the umpteenth time, why does it make sense that they wouldnt go to the CREATOR for the knowledge they sought, but instead go to the tree? You dont want to answer because it pokes a hole in your gnostic interpretation of the story...

A & E had no knowledge of anything and could not have even had the desire to choose. They could not see a choice because, as scriptures say, they were mentally blind.

That lack of desire is why they did not reproduce till after eating of the tree of knowledge.

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DL


Thats your lazy interpretation that they knew NOTHING before eating from the tree.
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Gnostic Bishop

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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

PostSun Jan 01, 2017 3:54 pm

KoncreteMind wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
The did not choose wrong.

To choose, knowledge is required of what you are choosing between.


If they werent wrong, the world would be in a better place, and not in a worse place. As well, only YOU assume they had no knowledge before eating from the tree. That isnt biblical though...

The tree of knowledge holds all possible knowledge and their place on the good and evil graph.


False. The CREATOR, who was with them in the garden, who created them AND the tree, holds ALL possible knowledge. Yet instead of going to Him, they went to the tree for knowledge. The very same tree, they were told to NOT go to. So for the umpteenth time, why does it make sense that they wouldnt go to the CREATOR for the knowledge they sought, but instead go to the tree? You dont want to answer because it pokes a hole in your gnostic interpretation of the story...

A & E had no knowledge of anything and could not have even had the desire to choose. They could not see a choice because, as scriptures say, they were mentally blind.

That lack of desire is why they did not reproduce till after eating of the tree of knowledge.

Regards
DL


Thats your lazy interpretation that they knew NOTHING before eating from the tree.


Again you say God was there when the script says he was not, but if you want to think knowledge can be had, and its evaluation as to good and evil, without that knowledge, I will leave you with your delusional thinking.

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DL
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KoncreteMind

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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

PostMon Jan 02, 2017 7:26 am

Gnostic Bishop wrote:Again you say God was there when the script says he was not


Genesis 3
8 And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden.

Actually it says He WAS in the garden. But I said this already and you ignored it apparently...

, but if you want to think knowledge can be had, and its evaluation as to good and evil, without that knowledge, I will leave you with your delusional thinking.

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DL


Theres nothing delusional about me assuming that the Creator holds all knowledge and not a tree that He created. Therefore, theres nothing delusional about me assuming that Adam and Eve would have been better off going to HIM instead of the tree that He told them to not go to.
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Gnostic Bishop

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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

PostMon Jan 02, 2017 3:40 pm

KoncreteMind wrote:[
quote="Gnostic Bishop"]
Again you say God was there when the script says he was not


Genesis 3
8 And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden.

Actually it says He WAS in the garden. But I said this already and you ignored it apparently...


At that point, it is after they ate. This you ignore so take the log out of your eye and follow the script.

, but if you want to think knowledge can be had, and its evaluation as to good and evil, without that knowledge, I will leave you with your delusional thinking.

Regards
DL


Theres nothing delusional about me assuming that the Creator holds all knowledge and not a tree that He created. Therefore, theres nothing delusional about me assuming that Adam and Eve would have been better off going to HIM instead of the tree that He told them to not go to.[/quote]

Again you ignore what is written to suit what you want the script to say.

If the tree of knowledge isn't that, then what was it?

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DL
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KoncreteMind

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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

PostMon Jan 02, 2017 7:30 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
At that point, it is after they ate. This you ignore so take the log out of your eye and follow the script.


My point has always been that if they sought knowledge, and were told by their and the tree's Creator to NOT go to the tree for it, then why didnt they simply go ask the Creator? You then said He wasnt in the garden to which I said, thats not what the book of genesis suggests. Which is 100% correct since nowhere does it say the Creator left and came back to the garden.


Again you ignore what is written to suit what you want the script to say.

If the tree of knowledge isn't that, then what was it?

Regards
DL


It is what it is. What Im saying is that the Creator that made the tree, holds that knowledge as well. So why didnt Adam and eve go to HIM instead of the tree that they were told NOT to go to? No matter how many consecutive posts I ask this question in, you still do not touch it. And thats because it pokes a hole in your "God is bad" gnostic interpretation of the chapter...

Lets say Webster, the guy who made the dictionary, had an impeccable memory to where he forgot nothing. He is standing beside his dictionary. Now does he as well as the dictionary (again running with the assumption that Webster forgets NOTHING) hold the knowledge that is in the dictionary? Or JUST the dictionary? Once he created the dictionary and put the knowledge inside of it, did it get deleted from his own memory? In the case of the Creator, He created the tree, and transferred ALL His knowledge to the tree to where the ttree held it all and He held none of it?

I was once a gnostic by the way so I've been where you are. I dont think you can say you've been where I am...
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

PostMon Jan 02, 2017 10:15 pm

KoncreteMind wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
At that point, it is after they ate. This you ignore so take the log out of your eye and follow the script.


My point has always been that if they sought knowledge, and were told by their and the tree's Creator to NOT go to the tree for it, then why didnt they simply go ask the Creator? You then said He wasnt in the garden to which I said, thats not what the book of genesis suggests. Which is 100% correct since nowhere does it say the Creator left and came back to the garden.


Again you ignore what is written to suit what you want the script to say.

If the tree of knowledge isn't that, then what was it?

Regards
DL


It is what it is. What Im saying is that the Creator that made the tree, holds that knowledge as well. So why didnt Adam and eve go to HIM instead of the tree that they were told NOT to go to? No matter how many consecutive posts I ask this question in, you still do not touch it. And thats because it pokes a hole in your "God is bad" gnostic interpretation of the chapter...

Lets say Webster, the guy who made the dictionary, had an impeccable memory to where he forgot nothing. He is standing beside his dictionary. Now does he as well as the dictionary (again running with the assumption that Webster forgets NOTHING) hold the knowledge that is in the dictionary? Or JUST the dictionary? Once he created the dictionary and put the knowledge inside of it, did it get deleted from his own memory? In the case of the Creator, He created the tree, and transferred ALL His knowledge to the tree to where the ttree held it all and He held none of it?

I was once a gnostic by the way so I've been where you are. I dont think you can say you've been where I am...


I hope not.

As to why no one went to God, that question is in the realm of why did God not shoo the talking serpent out of range of A & E.

It would be pure speculation on our part and when discussing myths, many possibilities could be acceptable.

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DL
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KoncreteMind

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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

PostFri Jan 06, 2017 4:22 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
I hope not.


Me too..

As to why no one went to God, that question is in the realm of why did God not shoo the talking serpent out of range of A & E.


No its not because your thread is based on the premise that they were punished for WANTING to know more when it is really because they went by the way of the tree to KNOW MORE..

The bible as a whole supports this belief since at the end of the bible, those who do whats right by it, end up becoming like "gods" (in heaven) who know good from evil... Just that this time, they went by the way they should have originally (God). But we dont even have to read the whole bible to know your premise is wrong. Just Genesis 3 where we see Adam/Eve already had SOME knowledge (obviously didnt come from the tree where they learned to walk, talk, eat, and ponder) that came from God. God just didnt want them to have EVERYTHING at once, like eating from the tree would give them...

It would be pure speculation on our part and when discussing myths, many possibilities could be acceptable.

Regards
DL


Your whole thread is based on speculation though sooooo.... :think:
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Rainerann

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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

PostSat Jan 07, 2017 6:33 am

There is a difference between knowledge of sin (tree of the knowledge of good and evil) and seeking knowledge or seeking to remove the effect of the knowledge of sin.

Before eating from the tree of knowledge they were not ignorant, they were free because knowledge of evil is bondage to sin.
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

PostSun Jan 08, 2017 9:09 am

Basically, no

'There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.' - Socrates

God didn't create us with the brains we have if He intended that we forego their use. It is all about enhancing your knowledge and perception, as that makes us not only more capable of doing things in the best ways, but they simply make us more alive.

The first words that were revealed to the last Prophet (pbuh) were "read". It is good advice.

I read this in the Qur'an the other day after briefly looking at the conversation going on here and thought the role and description of Al-Amanah seemed very similar to the tree of knowledge of good and evil, to which you refer.

Al-Ahzab 33:72

Truly, We did offer Al-Amanah (the trust or moral responsibility or honesty and all the duties which Allah has ordained) to the heavens and the earth, and the mountains, but they declined to bear it and were afraid of it (i.e. afraid of Allah's torment). But man bore it. Verily, he was unjust (to himself) and ignorant (of its results).

Of course, I expect this to be flat out rejected because Islam. Finding things that match up and similarities between religions is the devil's work, if I remember correctly. The mere thought of actually being on the same level as other people is truly a terrifying prospect for a lot of people
. We don't want to totally clutter our heads with useless information or know so much about the ugly side of the universe that it hardens our hearts completely. It is better if we seek out beneficial knowledge, that could potentially have some practical application towards the end goal of making the world a slightly better place. Not that any of it actually matters in the grand scheme, we all fit in somewhere on the scale and do what we all do, naturally.

Ecclesiastes 1:13-18

I applied my mind to study and to explore by wisdom all that is done under the heavens. What a heavy burden God has laid on mankind! I have seen all the things that are done under the sun; all of them are meaningless, a chasing after the wind.

What is crooked cannot be straightened;
what is lacking cannot be counted.

I said to myself, “Look, I have increased in wisdom more than anyone who has ruled over Jerusalem before me; I have experienced much of wisdom and knowledge.” Then I applied myself to the understanding of wisdom, and also of madness and folly, but I learned that this, too, is a chasing after the wind.

For with much wisdom comes much sorrow;
the more knowledge, the more grief
A fool thinks himself to be wise,
a wise man knows himself to be a fool
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