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Armageddon!

Theological and spiritual discussions within the context of a religious framework.
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Karlysymon

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Armageddon!

PostMon Mar 13, 2017 8:24 am

“Armageddon: A Military Conflict or a Battle for the Mind?”

Countless Hollywood movies
depict Armageddon as a real war on a real battlefield but could they be wrong? Most Christians would say they are right, just ask the average Televangelist, with their colourful descriptions of how Israel's enemies will descend with an intent to destroy her.
Iam putting this up to generate some discussion on this issue and maybe we can all re-examine some our long-held beliefs regarding Armageddon. (it isn't my personal examination just something that grabbed my attention during my web wanderings. Iam excerpting the most interesting part)
A Battle for the Mind

In the last days of earth’s history, therefore, there will be a world-wide confederacy of the saints. All over the world, there will be people who are faithful to Jesus and on His side in the final crisis. They will worship Him and Him alone. They will probably not be tightly organized in any institutional sense. But they are clearly defined in terms of their behavior. But what kind of battle is the Battle of Armageddon? What kind of role will the saints have in this battle? My study of the New Testament tells me that the Battle of Armageddon is not so much about tanks and planes and artillery as it is a battle for the mind of every human being on earth (Rev 14:7; 16:15). It is a battle between two trinities, each employing a trio of angels to persuade human beings to their side of the conflict (Rev 14:6-12; 16:13,14). Armageddon will be the conclusion of a war that has gone on throughout Christian history. The clearest description of that war is found in the second letter of Paul to the Corinthians: “For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world” (2 Cor 10:3-4; NIV).

A Spiritual Battle

What are the weapons of this world? In the Greek the phrase “weapons of the world” is literally “fleshly” weapons. What is a fleshly weapon? It is a weapon that tears you apart in a physical sense. AK-47 assault rifles are fleshly weapons. A-10 tank-killer aircraft are fleshly weapons. F-15 Screaming Eagles are fleshly weapons. M1A1 tanks are fleshly weapons. Paul is telling us that the kind of warfare the followers of Christ are involved with is not waged with fleshly weapons. The weapons of our spiritual warfare are different. “The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretention that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ” (2 Cor 10:4-5; NIV) Have you had to struggle with your thoughts today? That’s what the battle of Armageddon is all about! It is a battle for the mind. A battle against false ideas, a battle against the power of the enemy, a battle for self-control. And in that battle God will have on His side people of every nation, language, tribe, and religious background, a world-wide confederacy of the saints.

Military Language as a Metaphor of the Gospel

The language of Revelation 16 and 17 is military language. This has led many people to assume that the great battle at the end of time will be World War III, a military engagement among the nations of the world on a scale never before seen. But first impressions are not always accurate. The language of the Battle of Armageddon is military, the names and concepts are drawn from battles
in the Old Testament, but the meaning is spiritual. Military language is utilized as a metaphor of the gospel. Israel in the New Testament is a metaphor for the church, all those who take hold of the gospel and faithfully follow the path of Jesus. Cyrus becomes a symbol of Christ and His people. Babylon and the Euphrates River have become metaphors of the global enemies of God at the end of earth’s history. In Revelation, things are not always what they seem. That means that the great battle
at the End will have extremely personal implications. Every person on earth will be brought to a decision in favor either of the true trinity or of the counterfeit. The most sobering aspect of the teaching of Revelation is its assertion that the decision cannot be put off forever. There will come a time when the angels will no longer hold back the winds, it will be too late to get sealed (Rev 7:1-3)
. It will be too late to hear the gospel mysteries proclaimed (Rev 10:7). There will be no more intercessor in the heavenly temple (Rev 15:5-8). The filthy and unjust remain filthy and unjust (Rev 22:11). And this close of human probation is consistently portrayed as happening before the End. From the human perspective, the destiny of every person on earth will be fixed, yet life will go on for a time. Most will not know when that awful hour takes place. The biblical picture of the Battle of Armageddon, therefore, calls us all to accountability. Our decisions and our actions matter a great deal in the ultimate scheme of things. In the small everyday battles we have with our thoughts, we are practicing for the bigger battles to come. The greatest battle for the Christian is a battle for the mind—to focus on the real priorities of life. The battle of Armageddon is about intellectual, emotional, and spiritual allegiance. The great task that Christians face now is to discipline our minds and control our thoughts in order to prepare to be on God’s side in the final battle of earth’s history.

Afterall, even the Russian philosophers
Fyodor Dostoevsky and
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn taught with such profundity, that the battle line between God and the Devil, good and evil, runs through the
heart of every man.
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Re: Armageddon!

PostMon Mar 13, 2017 6:55 pm

Karlysymon wrote:“Armageddon: A Military Conflict or a Battle for the Mind?”

Countless Hollywood movies
depict Armageddon as a real war on a real battlefield but could they be wrong? Most Christians would say they are right, just ask the average Televangelist, with their colourful descriptions of how Israel's enemies will descend with an intent to destroy her.
Iam putting this up to generate some discussion on this issue and maybe we can all re-examine some our long-held beliefs regarding Armageddon. (it isn't my personal examination just something that grabbed my attention during my web wanderings. Iam excerpting the most interesting part)


I disagree with this premise. The Bible is always to be taken literally, except where it is obviously waxing poetic. Generally, when people start talking about figurative interpretations of Bible prophecy, they have to ignore vast swathes of scripture to do so.

A Battle for the Mind

In the last days of earth’s history, therefore, there will be a world-wide confederacy of the saints. All over the world, there will be people who are faithful to Jesus and on His side in the final crisis. They will worship Him and Him alone. They will probably not be tightly organized in any institutional sense. But they are clearly defined in terms of their behavior. But what kind of battle is the Battle of Armageddon? What kind of role will the saints have in this battle? My study of the New Testament tells me that the Battle of Armageddon is not so much about tanks and planes and artillery as it is a battle for the mind of every human being on earth (Rev 14:7; 16:15). It is a battle between two trinities, each employing a trio of angels to persuade human beings to their side of the conflict (Rev 14:6-12; 16:13,14). Armageddon will be the conclusion of a war that has gone on throughout Christian history. The clearest description of that war is found in the second letter of Paul to the Corinthians: “For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world” (2 Cor 10:3-4; NIV).


The battle that is currently taking place in the spiritual realm is not for minds, but for hearts. When Paul wrote about this warfare, he was clearly speaking of our daily battle against the flesh. Our spiritual armor is salvation, righteousness, truth, peace and the word of God.

The battle of Armageddon is never depicted in the Bible as a battle fought by earth-based Christians against unbelievers in any form. The Bible says in Revelation 19:

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.


It's clearly a physical war against the world's armies, fought and won by Jesus Christ when he leads an army out of Heaven.

A Spiritual Battle

What are the weapons of this world? In the Greek the phrase “weapons of the world” is literally “fleshly” weapons. What is a fleshly weapon? It is a weapon that tears you apart in a physical sense. AK-47 assault rifles are fleshly weapons. A-10 tank-killer aircraft are fleshly weapons. F-15 Screaming Eagles are fleshly weapons. M1A1 tanks are fleshly weapons. Paul is telling us that the kind of warfare the followers of Christ are involved with is not waged with fleshly weapons. The weapons of our spiritual warfare are different. “The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretention that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ” (2 Cor 10:4-5; NIV) Have you had to struggle with your thoughts today? That’s what the battle of Armageddon is all about! It is a battle for the mind. A battle against false ideas, a battle against the power of the enemy, a battle for self-control. And in that battle God will have on His side people of every nation, language, tribe, and religious background, a world-wide confederacy of the saints.


We don't defeat evil in others by controlling ourselves. And we are not called to defeat evil in others. This interpretation makes a mess of what we are called to do, and what we are told that Jesus Christ will do.

Military Language as a Metaphor of the Gospel

The language of Revelation 16 and 17 is military language. This has led many people to assume that the great battle at the end of time will be World War III, a military engagement among the nations of the world on a scale never before seen. But first impressions are not always accurate. The language of the Battle of Armageddon is military, the names and concepts are drawn from battles in the Old Testament, but the meaning is spiritual. Military language is utilized as a metaphor of the gospel.


Wrong. There is no indication anywhere in scripture that the events depicted in Revelation are meant to be taken as anything other than literal. Military metaphors when it comes to Christian life are very apt. After all, Jesus Christ is the Captain of the Lord's Host. But the Bible always says what it means and means what it says, and there is a big difference between the metaphorical armor of God and the physical armies of the world.

This is just more of the same "Yea, hath God said ... ?" that Satan has been pushing since creation. "God didn't really mean that, did he? He didn't really say that you couldn't eat from that tree. He didn't really say that he was coming back. He didn't really say that he would physically destroy the armies of the world after they gather to make war against him. Did he?"

Israel in the New Testament is a metaphor for the church, all those who take hold of the gospel and faithfully follow the path of Jesus.


This is heresy. Supersessionism, or replacement theology, is the belief that Israel has been cast away by God and replaced by the Church. God's plan for the Jews is spelled out clearly in scripture, Paul expressly denies that God is done with them, there are eternal promises that are yet to be fulfilled to the Jews, and yet we still see this damnable heresy of supersessionism taught by some churches.

In the seven years leading up to Armageddon, the Church will have been removed and God will be dealing with Israel again. The times of the gentiles that Christ spoke of will have been fulfilled, and it will be all about the Jews again as they move toward national reconciliation with God.

Cyrus becomes a symbol of Christ and His people. Babylon and the Euphrates River have become metaphors of the global enemies of God at the end of earth’s history. In Revelation, things are not always what they seem. That means that the great battle at the End will have extremely personal implications. Every person on earth will be brought to a decision in favor either of the true trinity or of the counterfeit. The most sobering aspect of the teaching of Revelation is its assertion that the decision cannot be put off forever. There will come a time when the angels will no longer hold back the winds, it will be too late to get sealed (Rev 7:1-3). It will be too late to hear the gospel mysteries proclaimed (Rev 10:7). There will be no more intercessor in the heavenly temple (Rev 15:5-8). The filthy and unjust remain filthy and unjust (Rev 22:11). And this close of human probation is consistently portrayed as happening before the End. From the human perspective, the destiny of every person on earth will be fixed, yet life will go on for a time. Most will not know when that awful hour takes place. The biblical picture of the Battle of Armageddon, therefore, calls us all to accountability. Our decisions and our actions matter a great deal in the ultimate scheme of things. In the small everyday battles we have with our thoughts, we are practicing for the bigger battles to come. The greatest battle for the Christian is a battle for the mind—to focus on the real priorities of life. The battle of Armageddon is about intellectual, emotional, and spiritual allegiance. The great task that Christians face now is to discipline our minds and control our thoughts in order to prepare to be on God’s side in the final battle of earth’s history.


Nope. Just, nope.

Those who have heard the Gospel before the Rapture and refused it have fixed their fate, but those who hear it during the Tribulation and turn to God may receive salvation at any time. The only ones fighting on God's side at Armageddon will be the Church age saints, who will come from Heaven, as noted in Revelation 19. Believers on earth will be few and far between, as the penalty for refusing to worship the Beast will be death, and will be in no shape to assist in the battle.

Allegorical interpretation of prophecy damages the message of God, especially when it's combined with the heresy of supersessionism. You really have to twist yourself into knots when you start making the Bible metaphorical in any aspect other than where it's obvious.
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Karlysymon

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Re: Armageddon!

PostMon Mar 13, 2017 9:00 pm

Thunderian wrote:The Bible is always to be taken literally, except where it is obviously waxing poetic.
Generally, when people start
talking about figurative interpretations of Bible
prophecy, they have to ignore vast swathes of scripture to do so.

Really? First off, thanks for your reply. I on the other hand do not believe in a 7yr tribulation or political Israel=spiritual Israel. So the dragon and the woman (Rev 12) and the 2 beasts coming out of the earth and the sea (13), iam supposed to read those events literally? Just hand me afew examples of "waxing poetic" or are the above the answer?
The battle that is currently
taking place in the spiritual
realm is not for minds, but for
hearts. When Paul wrote about
this warfare,

Isn't that the same thing? Iam sure you've heard the phrase "were battling for the hearts and minds of the people". You can't fight for one or the other. Everyone carries around a heart and mind.
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Re: Armageddon!

PostMon Mar 13, 2017 9:30 pm

I believe there is room for all three, heart mind and body... what you stand to champion, or lose, is your own soul.

Scimi
Image


I have nothing to do with any recommendations to join any war on any person , race or community. I do not support ISIS nor any other movement, I seek opportunities to unite mankind, I seek to look at common ground and choose to ignore differences. I do not support violence, I condemn it. I have no affiliations with any promoting of violence be it political, racial or religious.
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Re: Armageddon!

PostMon Mar 13, 2017 10:44 pm

Karlysymon wrote:
Thunderian wrote:The Bible is always to be taken literally, except where it is obviously waxing poetic.
Generally, when people start
talking about figurative interpretations of Bible
prophecy, they have to ignore vast swathes of scripture to do so.

Really? First off, thanks for your reply. I on the other hand do not believe in a 7yr tribulation or political Israel=spiritual Israel. So the dragon and the woman (Rev 12) and the 2 beasts coming out of the earth and the sea (13), iam supposed to read those events literally? Just hand me afew examples of "waxing poetic" or are the above the answer?


OK, let me back up a little. There are symbols in the Bible, but the Bible always interprets what these symbols are. This is much different from entire events being metaphorical.

For instance, the dragon is Satan, and that's an easy one, because it's right in Revelation 12:

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

The woman is Israel, and the clues are in her description in verse one of Revelation 12:

a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

The interpretation of that is back in Genesis 37, in Joseph's dream:

9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?


Joseph's father (Jacob, called Israel) understood that the sun, moon and stars represented Jacob, Joseph's mother Rachel, and his eleven brothers. otherwise known as the root of Israel. Therefore, Israel is the woman who gives birth to the child, Jesus Christ.

Israel is portrayed as a woman many times in the Old Testament, particularly as a faithless wife. Lamentations 1:1-7 is a good example of this.

The sea is symbolic of the gentile nations, and the references for this are found in Daniel 7, in the parable of the pearl of great price in Matthew, and in some other places that I don't have at my fingertips right now.

The long and short of it is that when the Bible says that something will physically happen, you can bet it will happen, even if the language used is symbolic. Symbolic language is not an excuse to ignore real events.

We could say, for example, that in the 20th century, a woman clothed in red, black and white gave birth to a monster who used lightning to attack a red bear. That may seem like gobbledygook to someone who doesn't know that the symbol of Germany is a woman (Germania), the colours of Germany were red, black and white, that Hitler was a monster and that the Nazis used a style of war called lightning war (blitzkrieg) to attack a Communist (red) country (Russia) whose symbol was the bear.

If the woman in Revelation 12 is the church, the passage makes no sense. When interpreted using consistent symbols in scripture for Israel, Satan, etc., it makes much more sense.

I do not believe that the current, political Israel is the spiritual Israel, either, but the remnant of Israel that is faithful to God is certainly going to be part of the current state of Israel.

The battle that is currently
taking place in the spiritual
realm is not for minds, but for
hearts. When Paul wrote about
this warfare,

Isn't that the same thing? Iam sure you've heard the phrase "were battling for the hearts and minds of the people". You can't fight for one or the other. Everyone carries around a heart and mind.


I guess I just don't see the connection between Paul's words about spiritual warfare and the battle of Armageddon. There is no indication anywhere that Paul is speaking of Armageddon, as references to spiritual warfare always have to do with our everyday, current life as Christians, and there is no indication in Revelation that the battle is not literal. Paul is also speaking to the Church, and the Church will not be on earth any longer when Armageddon takes place, but will be following Christ down from Heaven. The interpretation just doesn't make any sense.

I don't mean this against you, Karly, just in a general sense, but reading the Bible in a fashion where if something doesn't make sense, you just make up a meaning to it with no foundation elsewhere in scripture doesn't strike me as a particularly rewarding or very correct way of reading scripture. It just seems like a lot of, "I don't know what this means, so I am going to assign a meaning to it even though there is no foundation for it anywhere." Is that what God intended when he gave us the Bible? If something doesn't fit or doesn't make sense, that is no excuse to start pulling an interpretation out of thin air, just so you have one.

There is no foundation in the Bible for replacing the church with Israel. There is no foundation for the battle of Armageddon being a metaphorical war waged by Christians for the hearts and minds of unbelievers. There is foundation for the woman in Revelation 12 being Israel, for the dragon being Satan, and for the sea being gentiles. I am certainly happy to debate these symbols, and the meaning of spiritual warfare, but I would like to see some scripture to back up alternate views.
Last edited by Thunderian on Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Armageddon!

PostTue Mar 14, 2017 4:06 am

Scimitar wrote:I believe there is room for all three, heart mind and body... what you stand to champion, or lose, is your own soul.

Scimi


Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.
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Re: Armageddon!

PostTue Mar 14, 2017 1:02 pm

Thunderian wrote:The battle that is currently
taking place in the spiritual
realm is not for minds, but for hearts. When Paul wrote about this warfare, he was clearly speaking of our daily battle against the flesh. Our spiritual armor is salvation,
righteousness, truth, peace and word of God

Again, aren't you contradicting yourself here? You are a spiritual being. You said its a spiritual battle (taking place inside of you. In your heart and mind) fought with spiritual weapons. And how do you acknowledge truth? How do you understand the word of God? Is it not with the mind? Let's not chop man up into mind, soul, body. He is composed of all that, just like Scimi said.
You said political Israel isn't spiritual Israel but then you turn around and say the woman of Rev 12 is Israel. Isn't that the same thing?
We both know Scripture is its own interpreter and a verse elsewhere explains another. Paul clearly stated that we are engaged in spiritual warfare and we fight with spiritual weapons. What is an M1 Abram tank before Christ? Let us be honest. Or a F-15 fighter jet. A million boots on the ground assembled to engage Christ are as dust before Him, let alone a single angel. This is God we are talking about. A woman in scripture has always denoted the church, past (Israel) and present (followers of Christ)- Jer 6:2, 2 Cor 11:2, Rev 19:7-8. Even false churches are represented by women (the harlot riding the beast). If we aren't to interprete metaphorically, so is the mark of the beast going to be a literal mark on people's hands and foreheads? And by extension the seal of the saints will be visible. Movies do portray it this way btw. And if that is the case, what am i supposed to make of this? Eph 4:30
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God with whom you were SEALED for the day of redemption.

Is that seal visible or invisible?
Let us say that things will not turn out the way you think and that they won't turn out the way i think, then what? But someone has to be right. Because it isn't without precedent. The jewish spiritual leaders had the torah and Christ's advent didn't match their expections/conclusion. Nevertheless, someone had to be right. Yeah, you are going to say they desired deliverance from the Roman yoke, hence blinding themselves. But all of them? Caiaphas' statement in John 11:49-50 proves that not all expected Christ to come in glory (Zech 14), nevertheless, he as the high priest, went along with the crucifixion. These are people who were in possession of the scriptures and yet turned out to be the foremost in rejecting Him. And i will say that whoever runs Hollywood isn't interested us staying on the Christian path, hence they will perperuate stories pleasing to the ears and Christ's second advent will be waaaaay different from what they expected. Inotherwords, many will be caught offguard.
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Re: Armageddon!

PostTue Mar 14, 2017 10:47 pm

Karlysymon wrote:
Thunderian wrote:The battle that is currently
taking place in the spiritual
realm is not for minds, but for hearts. When Paul wrote about this warfare, he was clearly speaking of our daily battle against the flesh. Our spiritual armor is salvation,
righteousness, truth, peace and word of God

Again, aren't you contradicting yourself here? You are a spiritual being. You said its a spiritual battle (taking place inside of you. In your heart and mind) fought with spiritual weapons. And how do you acknowledge truth? How do you understand the word of God? Is it not with the mind? Let's not chop man up into mind, soul, body. He is composed of all that, just like Scimi said.


The heart is the most important, as Proverbs says, because out of it flows the issues of life. We are to guard it with everything we have.

The problem I am having specifically with the idea that Armageddon is a metaphorical conflict where Christians are batting spiritually against unbelievers is that there is zero evidence for that point of view in the Bible. Ephesians says we battle spiritually against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, be we are only told to stand against these things, not attack them, and it's clear that these are not flesh and blood forces that are coming against us.

Armageddon, however, is never presented anywhere as a spiritual conflict, but as a physical one. Revelation tells us that there will be so many dead after the battle that the birds of the earth will gather for a great supper and will feast on the flesh of kings, captains and mighty men. If the battle is metaphorical, what is the meaning of that detail? What do the birds represent? What is the flesh meant to be, if not flesh? In the Bible, birds always mean birds, and flesh always means flesh, so unless there is some spiritual symbolism that is made clear elsewhere, I don't see how Armageddon could be anything other than a real event.

You said political Israel isn't spiritual Israel but then you turn around and say the woman of Rev 12 is Israel. Isn't that the same thing?


Sorry if I am being unclear. Spiritual Israel is made up of Jews who have accepted Christ. Political Israel is the physical nation of Israel.

I am interested in your interpretation of Revelation 12, if the woman is not meant to be Israel. What is depicted in that chapter?

We both know Scripture is its own interpreter and a verse elsewhere explains another. Paul clearly stated that we are engaged in spiritual warfare and we fight with spiritual weapons. What is an M1 Abram tank before Christ? Let us be honest. Or a F-15 fighter jet. A million boots on the ground assembled to engage Christ are as dust before Him, let alone a single angel. This is God we are talking about.


I think I have addressed this already, but my point is that while we are on earth, we are engaged in spiritual warfare against the influence of Satan in our lives and against our own dead flesh. We will not go into attack mode against evil until Jesus Christ himself leads us into battle against the forces of evil. I don't imagine it will be much of a battle, and I don't think that we as Christians will do much other than watch as the Lord destroys his enemies -- physically and spiritually.

A woman in scripture has always denoted the church, past (Israel) and present (followers of Christ)- Jer 6:2, 2 Cor 11:2, Rev 19:7-8.


Not quite. Israel is portrayed as a woman, and as I said, as a faithless wife. The Church is always portrayed as a bride, a chaste virgin being made ready for her husband, and never as any kind of fallen woman or harlot.

Even false churches are represented by women (the harlot riding the beast).


If the Church is a chaste bride, doesn't it make sense that a false church would be portrayed the same as an unbelieving Israel is? As a whore and a fallen woman.

If we aren't to interprete metaphorically, so is the mark of the beast going to be a literal mark on people's hands and foreheads? And by extension the seal of the saints will be visible. Movies do portray it this way btw. And if that is the case, what am i supposed to make of this? Eph 4:30
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God with whom you were SEALED for the day of redemption.

Is that seal visible or invisible?


The seal of the Holy Spirit is a spiritual pledge or a deposit, a promise that Christ will redeem us and that says, "This person belongs to me." The mark of the beast is a similar badge of ownership, but with a definite physical component, since it will be necessary for buying and selling. I don't watch End Times movies, so I can't say whether I agree with how it's portrayed. The Bible says it will be in the hand or forehead, so I am guessing it will be some sort of chip, or possibly a biometric tattoo.

Let us say that things will not turn out the way you think and that they won't turn out the way i think, then what? But someone has to be right. Because it isn't without precedent. The jewish spiritual leaders had the torah and Christ's advent didn't match their expections/conclusion. Nevertheless, someone had to be right. Yeah, you are going to say they desired deliverance from the Roman yoke, hence blinding themselves. But all of them? Caiaphas' statement in John 11:49-50 proves that not all expected Christ to come in glory (Zech 14), nevertheless, he as the high priest, went along with the crucifixion.


But the Jewish spiritual leaders were completely blind. That's why Jesus railed against them. If they had been right with God and still completely missed the mark on prophecy concerning Jesus then your point might be valid, but these leaders were corrupt to the core in every way. They rejected Christ completely. Caiaphas didn't believe Jesus was the Messiah. He was saying that it was better they gave Christ up to be killed rather than suffer the wrath of the Romans on all of them.

These are people who were in possession of the scriptures and yet turned out to be the foremost in rejecting Him. And i will say that whoever runs Hollywood isn't interested us staying on the Christian path, hence they will perperuate stories pleasing to the ears and Christ's second advent will be waaaaay different from what they expected. Inotherwords, many will be caught offguard.


As I said, I don't watch End Times movies, so if you are mistaking me for some Left Behinder let me disabuse you of that notion right now. :smile:

I was raised on Bible prophecy and have been fascinated by it and studied it my entire life. It was my mother's teaching on the End Times that I recalled and that made me get right with God after 9/11, because a lot fell into place for me then as far as the global agenda and how things would be set up for the Antichrist to take power.

I don't think any less of Christians who don't believe as I do, but after years of reading the Bible and not knowing what it was talking about, especially when it came to prophecy, it's extremely gratifying to be able to read it now and know how it all fits together.

When the Bible is read metaphorically, there are far too many loose ends and unexplained verses. As I said, I don't think that's what God intended when he gave us the Bible. Revelation says, Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy. That says to me that we can read and understand and be blessed by Revelation, not confused and forced to kind of guess what is being talked about. I am convinced that the Bible is readable, and that every part of it is decipherable and understandable. If not, then Paul is lying when he says that all scripture is given by God and is for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness.
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Creeper

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Re: Armageddon!

PostWed Mar 15, 2017 1:53 pm

I think I heard a while ago that Armageddon is a prophesied, physical battle that happens in a place called Megiddo. It seemed reasonable to me, it's in the right sort of place, but it has been a while since I have looked into it.

The Prophets (pbut) said thousands of years ago that "the hour is near"....

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Don't get me wrong, I do believe that one day everything will come to an end, the earth, the sun, the entire universe. We place far too much importance on ourselves and think we are the be all and end all of everything, plenty of other species and worlds have been destroyed before us and I'm sure many more will come into existence and be wiped out long after we are gone from this physical plane. I can see how ancient prophecies have come true and the writing is on the wall, but the stuff could hit the fan in 7 days, 7 months, 7 years or we could be crushed under the tyranny of evil for the next 7000 years (worst case scenario), we won't know until it is happening and it is all very open to interpretation.

I think we are living in the prophesied "last days" but so have plenty of people from multiple generations before me and they all have one thing in common, they were all wrong. I couldn't give a rat's ass when the day that never comes, actually comes. It is what it is and if it is, knowing about it or having whatever feelings towards it isn't going to make the slightest bit of difference.

I actually think the reason the Prophets (pbut) always said "the hour is near" isn't because they knew when Judgement Day was, not even the angels know that, only The God knows. However, time doesn't really have the same meaning to the dead and we are all destined to have our own personal "last day". This is why it is important to just live in the best way we can, while we can, because after our last days we can't do anymore with our lives because we are dead and off to face Judgement.

Life is one hell of a trip...
A fool thinks himself to be wise,
a wise man knows himself to be a fool.

Everything is meaningless, a chasing after the wind.
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Karlysymon

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Re: Armageddon!

PostWed Mar 15, 2017 3:51 pm

@Creeper
thank you for your contribution. Whether said hour is now or in 1000yrs, i can speak for everyone that we are done with mainstream televangelists, hollywood and that odd street corner evangelist messing with our heads. Why not examine the matter on our own and draw our own conclusions? If said hour is in 2yrs, where is the harm in investigating Christ's second advent? He certainly failed to meet the Pharisaic expectations in the 1st century and more than likely the same thing will play out whenever said hour comes. There will be people for whom Christ will come in a way that is far removed from their long held belief.
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