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Discussion - not Debate ???

Theological and spiritual discussions within the context of a religious framework.
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Re: Discussion - not Debate ???

PostMon Mar 20, 2017 6:57 pm

I'm sorry,

maybe I wasn't clear by what I meant by Common Ground between us - I do not expect unity in theology, as a Muslim I cannot expect that.

"Say, 'O Non Muslims, I do not worship what you worship,
Nor are you worshippers of what I worship,
Nor will I be a worshipper of what you worship,
Nor will you be worshippers of what I worship,
For you is your religion, for me is my religion'"
- Surah al Kafiroon, Qur'an.

So it is clear here for us Muslims that the unity is not based on theology, and this is also clear to you as a Christian - we are not seeking a "Chrislam" - but common ground, common courtesy, mutual respect and honour as people who do believe in something higher than our own human minds and hearts. And this we champion with our humanity which God has granted us.

So I can work towards Unity in Morality, Values, Integrity, Nobility, Honour, Trust, etc - all these are very human traits which exist regardless of religion. Period.

It is this I wish to seek unity on. So we can live safely among each other, without the mistrust and paranoia which is plaguing our world currently due to elitist godless agendas polarised by the media.

And this initiative has been trying to get traction for years now but the mainstream media which is controlled by the godless folk - will not allow this to get any traction at all.

So really, it's up to people like us. God helps those who help others.

Lisa wrote:What do they do with their beliefs then? Sideline them for the common good? Do they pray together? And i apologize if that's in the video....


As a Muslim, I keep my beliefs, and as a Christian you keep yours - regrading theology, IE: you believe Jesus pbuh is the son of God - we have no issue with that, that is your belief. We as Muslims believe only God is to be worshipped and that Jesus pbuh is the Messiah and will return at the end time to defeat the anti-Christ and usher in a new age of God given rule.

What we unite on - is the teachings which hold moral values, teach integrity, honour, nobility, charity, justice, equity, love and concern for your fellow man in his hour of need etc - all that good stuff.

Simply this :Smile: it's really just learning to get along so we can help to facilitate safer environments where animosity, mistrust and hatred take a massive back seat.

God taught us to smile, he gave us all smiles to use generously and even made the facial muscles which get used when we smile, work less that the ones we use to frown... Jesus pbuh was one of the wisest men to have ever lived and graced this earth, so was Muhammad pbuh, and they both were very generous with their smiles. This subtlety to me, is so profound in practice that I see how such a small gesture can break walls of animosity, mistrust and hatred down, in an unexpected moment - and in that short unexpected moment when I smile at a stranger and receive a smile back, I see the Power of God break all the prejudice in that one instant.

God be praised, Amen.

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I have nothing to do with any recommendations to join any war on any person , race or community. I do not support ISIS nor any other movement, I seek opportunities to unite mankind, I seek to look at common ground and choose to ignore differences. I do not support violence, I condemn it. I have no affiliations with any promoting of violence be it political, racial or religious.
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Re: Discussion - not Debate ???

PostMon Mar 20, 2017 7:15 pm

I think people do try to see the best in others isn't that what you're really talking about?

I don't see the elite or the media trying to facilitate animosity and mistrust. I do think that muslims have been doing what they will to advance their beliefs in the world through terror and then trying to downplay that happening....If anything the elite and media are trying very hard to downplay the whole thing. Trying to act like what is happening isn't. I think its a very interesting thing to watch and wait and see if people will continue to believe nothings really wrong, or if they will do something about it? And what that something is, will be interesting to see to.
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Re: Discussion - not Debate ???

PostMon Mar 20, 2017 7:30 pm

Lisa wrote:I think people do try to see the best in others isn't that what you're really talking about?


yes, and to learn about each other instead of entertaining paranoia :smile: To work towards common causes together, like charities which help the poor and destitute in our localities, regardless of who they are. To stand in solidarity and prove to the haters, we are not from their camp, we are from those who live and get along and champion humanity with inference from our faith groups which preach - peace. Peace.

Lisa wrote: I don't see the elite or the media trying to facilitate animosity and mistrust.


This is very strange to read. If I recall correctly, you don't watch television or follow media narratives so this is a bit of a blanket statement by you - a red herring if you will.

Lisa wrote:I do think that Muslims have been doing what they will to advance their beliefs in the world through terror and then trying to downplay that happening....


That's a shame then. I hope you meet some Muslims in your life and discover they have more in common with you than others do. They are God fearing, God loving and caring folk. Just like you are Lisa. And to paint an entire religion bad based on the actions of a few bad apples is not a rational argument from you, dear sister.

If I was to play to your music, I would have cited the plethora of examples evidently available on the web showing Christian terrorism, and then claim - all Christians are like this - again that would be a blanket statement irrespective of any reality and devoid of any rationale.

It's this very same negative and accusatory thinking that I am against. Seeking common ground is to break the barriers of miscommunication in order to facilitate a better understanding. This takes us away from ignorant narratives and empowers us to have stronger, more educated opinions.

And as the forums motto goes - Educate your Opinion - this was a suggestion I left on this forum years ago when it first opened and today, it's our motto.

Lisa wrote:If anything the elite and media are trying very hard to downplay the whole thing. Trying to act like what is happening isn't. I think its a very interesting thing to watch and wait and see if people will continue to believe nothings really wrong, or if they will do something about it? And what that something is, will be interesting to see to.


Doesn't explain Trump. Does it? Or the right & left wing irreligious groups playing Christianity into the ground inside of the USA - you see Lisa? you are wrong. My people are attacked by the foreign policy of the USA now that Trump has the seat.

Your people are subjugated to terrestrial tyranny in the land you call "great".

We're both, Christian and Muslim, played out by the very same hand.

God bless,

Scimi
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I have nothing to do with any recommendations to join any war on any person , race or community. I do not support ISIS nor any other movement, I seek opportunities to unite mankind, I seek to look at common ground and choose to ignore differences. I do not support violence, I condemn it. I have no affiliations with any promoting of violence be it political, racial or religious.
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Re: Discussion - not Debate ???

PostMon Mar 20, 2017 7:44 pm

I think most people don't entertain paranoia but they will get pretty suspicious and defensive if they think they may be attacked or hurt...

Is that what islam is trying now? To get people to see how great it is while also doing its darndest to conquer non muslims? It must get awful tiring trying to do both simultaneously?

I don't watch tv, but I do read the news....I keep an eye on things :)

No, muslims won't have anything in common with me. I sat in a restaurant and watched one poor woman eating and drinking and every time she did she lifter her veil...I thought that was pretty sad and I could tell she was somewhat proud of her humbleness of doing that. I don't see where that is humble at all but keeping her from having the same freeedoms as others to come out in public and not have to cover herself up and lift a veil to get a meal. I see women in tents and it makes me so angry to see them in their cloth chains.

It's way more than a few bad apples at this point Scimi.

What Christian terrorists are you talking about?

Why bring up trump? I'm not sure what Christian groups you are talking about?
I thought trump was building his fence for Mexicans? And I think he's trying to keep your bad apples out....but I think that's a lost cause.

Did I call the US great? I don't remember that...
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Re: Discussion - not Debate ???

PostMon Mar 20, 2017 7:55 pm

Lisa wrote:I think most people don't entertain paranoia but they will get pretty suspicious and defensive if they think they may be attacked or hurt...


I wasn't generalising Lisa :)

Lisa wrote:Is that what islam is trying now? To get people to see how great it is while also doing its darndest to conquer non muslims? It must get awful tiring trying to do both simultaneously?


No, that's what Christianity has always done, as is evident with the Evangelical movement. It's not about making the world fully Muslim because we know from our religion that Islam will be a faith among other faiths. So how can we as Muslims entertain such a preposterous idea?

Lisa wrote:I don't watch tv, but I do read the news....I keep an eye on things :)


I struggle to understand your previous statement then, seems you believe what you read in the "papers". I thought we here are a little more "awake and aware" than this to be honest. Tabloids only turn brains to mushy peas, there is no intellectual content in any tabloid. Never has been, never will be - they are satirical comics for adults which seek to undermine your intellect with polarity as is known to us here, Lisa.

Lisa wrote:No, muslims won't have anything in common with me. I sat in a restaurant and watched one poor woman eating and drinking and every time she did she lifter her veil...I thought that was pretty sad and I could tell she was somewhat proud of her humbleness of doing that. I don't see where that is humble at all but keeping her from having the same freeedoms as others to come out in public and not have to cover herself up and lift a veil to get a meal. I see women in tents and it makes me so angry to see them in their cloth chains.


So you have just demonstrated your intolerance. That's very honest of you, I must say. I think you may be a part of the problem and not the solution then.

Lisa wrote:It's way more than a few bad apples at this point Scimi.


Nope, it's a few bad apples. But you can believe that. I have no problem with it :)

Lisa wrote:What Christian terrorists are you talking about?


I really don't want to do this here, you shold be aware of these groups all by yourself. But for the sake of brevity and you forcing my hand, I'll drop one group and one group only - Westboro Baptists who go around bombing abortion clinics. I'm sure you're aware of them. Or the KKK. Or the "enter Christian terror group here"... the list goes on and on, but I don't wanna take this thread into a willy waving match - that was never my intention Lisa. Please understand, the purpose of this thread is to facilitate common ground, not cause more argumentation. OK?

Lisa wrote:Why bring up trump? I'm not sure what Christian groups you are talking about?
I thought trump was building his fence for Mexicans? And I think he's trying to keep your bad apples out....but I think that's a lost cause.


And Mexico isn''t majorly Christian? Come on.

Trump has banned Muslims from returning to America from named Muslim nations - without justification. The whole world is up in riot over it - you claim you read your tabloids - did you fall asleep on the front page?

Lisa wrote:Did I call the US great? I don't remember that...


Well, it used to be, didn't it?

phpBB [video]


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I have nothing to do with any recommendations to join any war on any person , race or community. I do not support ISIS nor any other movement, I seek opportunities to unite mankind, I seek to look at common ground and choose to ignore differences. I do not support violence, I condemn it. I have no affiliations with any promoting of violence be it political, racial or religious.
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Re: Discussion - not Debate ???

PostMon Mar 20, 2017 8:19 pm

I was just saying that people already do the things you are wanting them to do, come together and do those nice humanitarian things.

The evangelical movement was about telling the people the Good News it wasn't about conquering anyone.

Well, isn't conquering the world what Muhammad had in mind? Didn't muslims go off to war and conquering other peoples and lands? And wasn't one of the tools of conquering, getting along until muslim's had the numbers to conquer the peoples around them? Come on Scimi be honest here about islamic history.

Haha, we all read the news and can decide what we believe about it. I just don't happen to watch cnn or Fox News for my news...never said I didn't read any news.

Intolerance? I'm a woman, I would hate to see another woman treated unfairly or abused. And I think that tents are unfair to women and abuse!

Maybe you should read the news and see what your fellow muslims are up to?

Ah...those "Christians"? How are the kkk Christian's do ya know? They don't seem to follow the Bible at all. And those other people are a cult. How long is this list of non Christians that you have?

Mexico is majorly catholic and Catholics aren't Christian's they believe different things.

Well, I thought it was all a game over who wins the let them in/no lets not contest...(in regard to muslims) The truth is anyone can convert so that won't stop islam from coming in. I think with the Mexicans, trump wants to establish the rule of law again that says that you must be here legally...nothing wrong with that...lots of nations have that rule.

I don't know if the US was actually great or just thought it was, but the point is is that I never said the US was great...
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Re: Discussion - not Debate ???

PostMon Mar 20, 2017 8:34 pm

Lisa wrote:
Well, isn't conquering the world what Muhammad had in mind? Didn't muslims go off to war and conquering other peoples and lands? And wasn't one of the tools of conquering, getting along until muslim's had the numbers to conquer the peoples around them? Come on Scimi be honest here about islamic history.


Christians are just as guilty of this as Muslims over history. Pretty much everywhere Christians went to spread the "good word" was met with death. Just ask good ol' Columbus. He got his own national holiday for murdering natives in the name of Christianity.


Intolerance? I'm a woman, I would hate to see another woman treated unfairly or abused. And I think that tents are unfair to women and abuse!


Yeah, but you thinking something doesn't make it true. I'm against mandatory burqas, but more than likely if you are seeing a woman wearing a burqa here in the US of A she is wearing it because she wants to, not because she is being forced to. Should she not be allowed to wear what she wants to wear? Is that freedom? You, nor I, not the government should have any real say in what type of clothing one chooses to wear or for what reason.


Ah...those "Christians"? How are the kkk Christian's do ya know? They don't seem to follow the Bible at all. And those other people are a cult. How long is this list of non Christians that you have?


This is literally what Muslims say about Islamic terrorists: They aren't real Muslims, and they don't follow the Quran.
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"We all are to some extent [agnostic]... So yes, I'm an 'agnostic', in as much as I don't actually know what happens when I die. I choose to operate under the assumption that God does not exist. I have no need for God in my life, the concept of a 'God' feels incredibly made up to me. It is not requisite for my every day living. For some people it is. They are 'theistic agnostics,' I am an 'atheistic agnostic.'" - Cara Santa Maria
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Re: Discussion - not Debate ???

PostMon Mar 20, 2017 8:44 pm

Hey Lisa, great to see you here! I will say again what i said before which is in line with what Scimi is saying. It isn't about merging faiths, i certainly would be the first to jump ship but to maintain unity and peace. I just quoted Paul who admonishes us to live in peace with everyone as far as we can on our part. Our God is a God of peace and iam 100% sure He is delighted by a company that is ideologically different but maintain peace and goodwill toward each other than a company where everyone is ideologically the same yet pathologically hate each other and can't stand one another. Isn't that what the story of the Good Samaritan is about? Aren't we admonished to love our neighbour as we love ourselves?
Mutual kindness and
forbearance will make home a Paradise and attract holy angels into the family circle; but they will flee from a house where there are unpleasant words, fretfulness, and strife.
Unkindness, complaining, and
anger shut Jesus from the
dwelling.

How would you feel if say you lived next door to couple where a guy hits his wife every other night or hits his kids in a drunken rage. Wouldn't their screams wring your heart? If your person, with a fallen nature, can be disturbed by that how about our God who is also watching? God isn't happy if unity is lacking in the everyday things.
The elite have everything to gain from dissension and when mistrust pervades society. Right now, trust in our society is at all time lows and that is bad for everyone. Family breakdown leads to
community breakdown, which we can see in the decline of trust in society. Just check out this poll
http://ap-gfkpoll.com/featured/our-late ... indings-24
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Re: Discussion - not Debate ???

PostMon Mar 20, 2017 8:52 pm

Hi Loki! :)
Is that what Columbus did? He murdered people in the name of Christianity? I never heard that one.

Well, its a tricky thing about those burqa's to know if the woman wants to wear them or if she's being forced to here...but I'd say that some are coerced and some are deceived that wearing that pleases God. Maybe it pleases allah, but I don't know that it pleases God.

Ya, I knew that when I wrote it that would be the answer....
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Re: Discussion - not Debate ???

PostMon Mar 20, 2017 8:57 pm

Hey Karly :)
I was thinking of another scripture, that the darkness and the light have nothing in common....How could it?

And like I told Scimi, people generally do this anyway, give each other the benefit of the doubt.

I don't get your analogy. What does a guy hitting his wife have to do with unity?

Well, I would say to the muslims making trusting muslims hard-stop doing what your doing, that it seems would go a long way in bringing back trust. Stop those no go zones, muslim only zones in others' countries, integrate into the culture, but when you are standoffish and violent, what hope would you have to unite with anyone that isn't like minded?
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