It is currently Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:15 pm


Announcement: Registrations are currently disabled. Apologies for any inconvenience caused.

When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatur

Theological and spiritual discussions within the context of a religious framework.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline
User avatar

Gnostic Bishop

Registered User

2 stars

  • Posts: 683
  • Joined: 04 August 2014
  • Thanks Received: 114

When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatur

PostMon Jun 12, 2017 8:02 pm

When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Or will you seek a moral religion to replace the immoral one you now follow, if you happen to be Christian or Muslim?

Or will you let your faith hide the truth of the immorality of your God?

Martin Luther.
“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

Regards
DL
Offline

Creeper

Registered User

1.5 stars

  • Posts: 204
  • Joined: 08 January 2017
  • Thanks Received: 282

Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supern

PostTue Jun 20, 2017 2:46 pm

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstein

Peace be upon you, Gnostic Bishop.

I thought I would take the bait and give you a reply, seeing as this thread has been here for a while and there isn't really anyone else here to humour you... It is a pretty dead forum at the moment and it will probably stay that way until the official VC forum inevitably closes down again.

Anyway... What is your definition of the age of reason? I'm guessing you are not referring to the work of Thomas Paine. You do realise that Christians and Muslims both recognise an 'age of reason' and you probably got this concept from the very religions that you hate so much (yet you never seem to have anything bad to say about Jews...). The age of reason (canon law), in Catholicism is usually around seven or eight years old, when children are considered capable of understanding and participating in the sacraments. In Islam the word is Rashid which is explained well enough in this Ayat.

"And test the orphans until they attain puberty; then if you find in them maturity of intellect, make over to them their property...” (Surah an-Nisā’ 4:6)

I don't know why I ask, because you will never give me an actual answer. I would ask what you would advocate instead, but I have tried that before as well. Aside from the deadness of this forum, there are likely other good reasons why your thread was being ignored... Whatever you define this age as being, it is a moot point because anyone reading this has probably already attained it if they are looking sites like this on the internet. It is pretty demeaning to whoever is reading your OP when you imply they have not reached an age where they are capable of reason and then basically say they are evil if they are religious (specifically Christian or Muslim), I'm sure that is a great way to convince people of whatever you are saying :roll: another classic Gnostic Bishop thread :lol:

You say these religions are immoral, I'm sure that I can show you all kinds of things from the Qur'an and Bible which contain good moral guidance, which will then be promptly ignored. I'm not even going to talk to you about your judging the morality of The God or your fixation on the supernatural, because we have gone over these things before. I'm just going to let this quote say it for me.

“People fear what they don’t understand and hate what they can’t conquer.” - Andrew Smith
A fool thinks himself to be wise,
a wise man knows himself to be a fool.

Everything is meaningless, a chasing after the wind.
Offline
User avatar

Gnostic Bishop

Registered User

2 stars

  • Posts: 683
  • Joined: 04 August 2014
  • Thanks Received: 114

Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supern

PostMon Jun 26, 2017 12:43 pm

Creeper wrote:"
Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstein

Peace be upon you, Gnostic Bishop.


Thanks.

I thought I would take the bait and give you a reply, seeing as this thread has been here for a while and there isn't really anyone else here to humour you...


True. V. F. seems to have banned those whose ideology they do not like.

It is a pretty dead forum at the moment and it will probably stay that way until the official VC forum inevitably closes down again.


I agree, as it seems to be a Muslim site and Muslims tend to preach because they cannot argue well for Islam and it's slave holding ideology.

Anyway... What is your definition of the age of reason? I'm guessing you are not referring to the work of Thomas Paine. You do realise that Christians and Muslims both recognise an 'age of reason' and you probably got this concept from the very religions that you hate so much (yet you never seem to have anything bad to say about Jews...). The age of reason (canon law), in Catholicism is usually around seven or eight years old, when children are considered capable of understanding and participating in the sacraments. In Islam the word is Rashid which is explained well enough in this Ayat.

"And test the orphans until they attain puberty; then if you find in them maturity of intellect, make over to them their property...” (Surah an-Nisā’ 4:6)

I don't know why I ask, because you will never give me an actual answer.


Disingenuous.

When using age of reason, I do not refer to a particular age but to a state of mind, where the person can properly use reason and logic. Many adults here have yet to reach the age of reason. They mostly believe in some guy in the sky based on blind faith and lying priests, preachers and imams.

I would ask what you would advocate instead, but I have tried that before as well.


I advocate not accepting anything from religions or their spokesmen if that religion, like Christianity and Islam, had to grow by the sword instead of preaching a better way of life and gaining converts that way.

Aside from the deadness of this forum, there are likely other good reasons why your thread was being ignored... Whatever you define this age as being, it is a moot point because anyone reading this has probably already attained it if they are looking sites like this on the internet. It is pretty demeaning to whoever is reading your OP when you imply they have not reached an age where they are capable of reason and then basically say they are evil if they are religious (specifically Christian or Muslim), I'm sure that is a great way to convince people of whatever you are saying :roll: another classic Gnostic Bishop thread :lol:


Would you prefer I lied?

You say these religions are immoral, I'm sure that I can show you all kinds of things from the Qur'an and Bible which contain good moral guidance, which will then be promptly ignored. I'm not even going to talk to you about your judging the morality of The God or your fixation on the supernatural, because we have gone over these things before. I'm just going to let this quote say it for me.

“People fear what they don’t understand and hate what they can’t conquer.” - Andrew Smith


Sure, all homophobic and misogynous religions, like Christianity and Islas, as well as the Jews, that was just for you, preach love for all the men in those religions, while preaching inequality for gays and women in their religion and hate for those not in their religion.

That hate is what has pushed the religious to fight even their own diverging denominations.

Regards
DL
Offline

Creeper

Registered User

1.5 stars

  • Posts: 204
  • Joined: 08 January 2017
  • Thanks Received: 282

Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supern

PostTue Jun 27, 2017 4:12 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Creeper wrote:What is your definition of the age of reason? I'm guessing you are not referring to the work of Thomas Paine. You do realise that Christians and Muslims both recognise an 'age of reason' and you probably got this concept from the very religions that you hate so much (yet you never seem to have anything bad to say about Jews...). The age of reason (canon law), in Catholicism is usually around seven or eight years old, when children are considered capable of understanding and participating in the sacraments. In Islam the word is Rashid which is explained well enough in this Ayat.

"And test the orphans until they attain puberty; then if you find in them maturity of intellect, make over to them their property...” (Surah an-Nisā’ 4:6)

I don't know why I ask, because you will never give me an actual answer.


Disingenuous.

Maybe, however I was genuinely curious as to how you define the 'age of reason' that you talked about and I thought I was adding something to the conversation by mentioning the things I did. I'm sorry that you feel I am disingenuous and just here purely for the sake of antagonism. It is actually my hope that we can both benefit from conversations like these, despite our differences. No matter what we may think, we are still brothers in humanity.

Your 'disingenuous' comment, in regards to my motives, is actually a small scale example of why I have a problem with a lot of what you say... You say things as though you can read minds and paint with a very broad​ brush, my friend :Smile:


When using age of reason, I do not refer to a particular age but to a state of mind, where the person can properly use reason and logic. Many adults here have yet to reach the age of reason. They mostly believe in some guy in the sky based on blind faith and lying priests, preachers and imams.

That makes a lot of sense, 'maturity of intellect' as the Ayat I referenced said. Sometimes children can be more mature than old people in that regard. Thank you for your answer.

My own personal interpretations are more along the lines of "the force" from star wars as opposed to a "sky daddy" which is far too anthropomorphic.


I would ask what you would advocate instead, but I have tried that before as well.


I advocate not accepting anything from religions or their spokesmen if that religion, like Christianity and Islam, had to grow by the sword instead of preaching a better way of life and gaining converts that way.

This is another area in which we always have a problem, because on the one hand I would be inclined to agree with you. However, when I look at the original revelations set forth by the Prophets themselves (pbut), I can't see the actions of the Christians and Mohammedians being at all reflective of their respective Prophets original messages. Jesus and Mohammed (pbut) are likely spinning in their graves (or wherever else they may be) at the evil that has been carried out in their names...

It is pretty demeaning to whoever is reading your OP when you imply they have not reached an age where they are capable of reason and then basically say they are evil if they are religious (specifically Christian or Muslim), I'm sure that is a great way to convince people of whatever you are saying :roll: another classic Gnostic Bishop thread :lol:


Would you prefer I lied?

I would prefer if you had the integrity to admit that no matter what group you are talking about, it is made up of good and bad people and you don't know their individual motives. There are reasons why I don't care about the labels anymore. Good and evil can be found in any group, even in any individual. You can't say things like "you are evil if you are a Muslim or a Christian" because it is straight up bullshit (most of these people wouldn't try to live their lives in such ways if they thought they were doing anything evil) and not at all helpful to whatever point you are trying to put across, savvy? This is where I start to feel that you are a tad, disingenuous.

You say these religions are immoral, I'm sure that I can show you all kinds of things from the Qur'an and Bible which contain good moral guidance, which will then be promptly ignored. I'm not even going to talk to you about your judging the morality of The God or your fixation on the supernatural, because we have gone over these things before. I'm just going to let this quote say it for me.

“People fear what they don’t understand and hate what they can’t conquer.” - Andrew Smith


Sure, all homophobic and misogynous religions, like Christianity and Islas, as well as the Jews, that was just for you,

Nice one bro :thumbup:

preach love for all the men in those religions, while preaching inequality for gays and women in their religion and hate for those not in their religion.

I think they preach forgiveness more than anything, live and let live, if people want to take it further than that and give in to their hatred then that is on them. I can't control what other people think and feel and do... But I forgive them, for they know not what they do.

That hate is what has pushed the religious to fight even their own diverging denominations.

I agree that all the fighting in and between religions​ is unbelievably stupid and goes against the original message. This is why I don't label myself as anything and simply call humans, human. The irony that the followers of religion, who are supposed to be its biggest advocates are actually the biggest turn off, isn't lost on me. Still, I'm not going to say that there is nothing to these things and that it is all fantasy and then make blanket statements and massive sweeping generalisations about their respective followers because that is just plain intellectually dishonest. You can't honestly expect some people not to feel insulted by your usual rhetoric. I hope one day that you are able to see that and treat others as you would have them treat you.

Regards
DL

Peace be upon you brother, this has been one of our more pleasant conversations and I hope you have a great day. Take it easy bro.
A fool thinks himself to be wise,
a wise man knows himself to be a fool.

Everything is meaningless, a chasing after the wind.
Offline
User avatar

Gnostic Bishop

Registered User

2 stars

  • Posts: 683
  • Joined: 04 August 2014
  • Thanks Received: 114

Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supern

PostTue Jun 27, 2017 5:50 pm

Creeper wrote:
live and let live, if people want to take it further than that and give in to their hatred then that is on them. b]


??

Compare your live and let live to, for evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing, or live and let live.

If the good lived and let live, slavery would still be the status quo.

You seem to think that hate is what drives innovators when it is love for the victims that motivate.

Jesus said he came to bring war and not peace. I guess you would see him doing that out of hate instead of love.

Am I right or are you applying a double standard?

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgement: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Regards
DL
Offline

Creeper

Registered User

1.5 stars

  • Posts: 204
  • Joined: 08 January 2017
  • Thanks Received: 282

Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supern

PostTue Jun 27, 2017 8:06 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Creeper wrote:
live and let live, if people want to take it further than that and give in to their hatred then that is on them.


??

I feel exactly the same way after reading your post :lol:

Seriously...


Image

That is the only part of my post you wanted to respond to? You have taken it out of context and completely missed the point. Weak dude, I don't know why I bother...

Compare your live and let live to, for evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing, or live and let live.

You can do something to stop evil if you really want to, by all means, but there will always be evil and suffering in the world no matter what is done about it. I'm talking about being able to forgive any evil act and not retaliating in an extreme way to lesser evils (like homosexuality, seeing as you keep using it as an example) that do not effect you personally in any way, shape or form, whatsoever. It seems that little nuance completely flew over your head, no surprise there...

Perhaps Sheikh al-Sha'rawi will explain it better than me


Sheikh al-Sharawy said: I once spoke with a young man who has a mind that was quite extreme, I asked him: "Blowing up a nightclub or immoral place with people inside, is it halal or haram?"

Young Man:
"Of course halal and permissible to kill them."

Shaykh Sha'rawi:
"If you kill them while they are disobeying God what will happen to them or where will they go?"

Young Man:
"Of course they will go to hell."

Shaykh Sha'rawi:
"Where does the devil want to take them?"

Young Man:
"Of course to hell, because it is the goal of the devil"

Shaykh Sha'rawi:
"Then you and the devil cooperate in a goal, to take humans to the hellfire."

Then Shaykh also reminded him of the Hadith of the Prophet. When a corpse of an individual had past before him he stood up and cried, and the Sahaba around him asked "What makes you weep O Messenger of Allah?" He said: "Another soul has escaped from me and gone to hell!"

Shaykh: "Can you see the difference between you and the Prophet (may peace and blessings be upon him)? The want of guidance for all mankind and save them from hell, you are on one side and He(may peace and blessings be upon him) was of the other!"


If the good lived and let live, slavery would still be the status quo.

Is it not?
Have you seen the world today?

We are all debt slaves...


You seem to think that hate is what drives innovators when it is love for the victims that motivate.


Reading my mind again? :lol: I can see how both of these emotions can motivate people to do things.

The rest of your post is just you, once again, whimsically interpreting scripture in order to make an ad-hominem argument against me ​to try and prove a stupid point that nobody ever made and it doesn't really deserve my consideration. Case in point. It is laughable that you would quote Deuteronomy 32:4 to me, where it says how God's work is perfect and all that, after the countless threads you have made saying otherwise and about how evil God is. Are you serious? And you accuse me of having double standards, bloody hell... Can I have some of whatever you are taking? It must be good stuff...

If we are going to be throwing scripture around on a whim, I'm going to quote this from the Qur'an again, because at least it is relevant to what I am saying here.

42:40-43
And the retribution for an evil act is an evil one like it, but whoever pardons and makes reconciliation - his reward is [due] from Allah. Indeed, He does not like wrongdoers.

And whoever avenges himself after having been wronged - those have not upon them any cause [for blame].

The cause is only against the ones who wrong the people and tyrannize upon the earth without right. Those will have a painful punishment.

And whoever is patient and forgives - indeed, that is of the matters [requiring] determination.
Last edited by Creeper on Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
A fool thinks himself to be wise,
a wise man knows himself to be a fool.

Everything is meaningless, a chasing after the wind.
Offline
User avatar

Gnostic Bishop

Registered User

2 stars

  • Posts: 683
  • Joined: 04 August 2014
  • Thanks Received: 114

Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supern

PostTue Jun 27, 2017 11:53 pm

TLDR

Regards
DL
Offline

Creeper

Registered User

1.5 stars

  • Posts: 204
  • Joined: 08 January 2017
  • Thanks Received: 282

Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supern

PostWed Jun 28, 2017 4:07 am

LOL

As I said, weak dude.

I'm not surprised that you got nothing because your last post was desperately clutching at straws...

SMH

I just tried to shorten my post a bit for you, although I suspect that you are just trolling at this point and trying to illicit some kind of irrational and emotional response from me because it is hardly the first time we have read long posts from each other...

You will only respond to one heavily out of context sentence in it anyway, in order to attempt some character assassination or prove some insane point that serves your "purpose" :roll:

Peace out man, there is clearly nothing more to be said in this thread if that's how it is.
A fool thinks himself to be wise,
a wise man knows himself to be a fool.

Everything is meaningless, a chasing after the wind.
Offline
User avatar

Gnostic Bishop

Registered User

2 stars

  • Posts: 683
  • Joined: 04 August 2014
  • Thanks Received: 114

Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supern

PostWed Jun 28, 2017 1:11 pm

Your analysis is off the mark.

You simply had nothing worthy of the read and trying to have a conversation or discussion with you is near impossible.

Regards
DL
Offline

Creeper

Registered User

1.5 stars

  • Posts: 204
  • Joined: 08 January 2017
  • Thanks Received: 282

Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supern

PostWed Jun 28, 2017 3:30 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:Your analysis is off the mark.

Then by all means, enlighten me. You don't seem to realise that I have observed the same patterns of behaviour from you time and time again...

You simply had nothing worthy of the read and trying to have a conversation or discussion with you is near impossible.


As you have said...

Gnostic Bishop wrote:If you are to ignore what is written then having a discussion becomes impossible.

Your deflections and lack of debate and discussion skill is noted. Best to ignore me.


Peace be upon you :Smile:
A fool thinks himself to be wise,
a wise man knows himself to be a fool.

Everything is meaningless, a chasing after the wind.
Next

Return to Religion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

cron