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Can you accept that Man is greater than God?

Theological and spiritual discussions within the context of a religious framework.
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Creeper

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Re: Can you accept that Man is greater than God?

PostSat Sep 09, 2017 5:26 pm

Just to go back to something that was said earlier in the thread which highlights precisely why every conversation with Gnostic Bishop about religion or God goes the same way...

Gnostic Bishop wrote:Morality of God is the issue. Not his imaginary existence.


Why do you get so worked up over the morality of something you don't believe exists? Unless the truth is that you are a Misothiest as Scimitar said. Hence all the willy waving contests where you pit man against God and claim we are superior and your supreme hatred of anything supernatural. Which is nothing more than the extraordinary, simply nature beyond our senses and reasoning, we are like bacteria trying to contemplate a microscope.

I like your Star Trek references :Smile: in that very episode there is a moment where Picard is explaining to that woman how he isn't a god and that what she thinks is magic is just advanced technology. That scene is a good analogy for how I feel when I try to explain the supernatural to you :lol:

slave of God asked you some great questions :Smile:

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
slave_of_God wrote:Where does the usual 9 month gestation come from? How does it happen to exist?

To learn? How is the mind able to learn? Where does that ability come from?

Where does reproduction come from? Why do all forms of life reproduce? Where does nature come from?

Biology is the study of living organisms. Where does life come from? How are we able to think?

Why do we like some things and hate other things? Where does this come from? The ability to like, to love, to appreciate?


The intelligent view is nature.

The less intelligent view is some invisible guy in the sky with satanic morals.

Ignoring the venom and arrogance for a moment, why is it impossible for you to conceive of a combination of the two?

Where did nature come from? Why is the universe so fine tuned to allow for everything that exists within it? You have to believe in an awful lot of 'coincidences' and an incredible amount of flukes to chalk it all up to random chance.

The 'invisible guy' statement is more accurate for Christianity, not that there is an adequate comparison, but something like the force from star wars would be a bit more accurate...


Why is morality not your main focus when morality is what religions brag about?


Where does morality come from?

Note that God is not religion. Religion is just what humans come up with to try and explain God in terms we can actually comprehend, it is inherently corrupted by our nature and limited understanding.
A fool thinks himself to be wise,
a wise man knows himself to be a fool.

Everything is meaningless, a chasing after the wind.
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Gnostic Bishop

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Re: Can you accept that Man is greater than God?

PostSat Sep 09, 2017 8:46 pm

Creeper

"simply nature beyond our senses and reasoning,"

Correct. If beyond our senses and reasoning, which is the intelligent position to take, then how is it that you and others think there is any supernatural realm at all?

You cannot sense it so can you have faith in a God that cannot be sensed or understood in any way?

"Note that God is not religion. Religion is just what humans come up with to try and explain God in terms we can actually comprehend, it is inherently corrupted by our nature and limited understanding."

Correct again, and if corrupted understanding is all we have, why do you believe corrupt understanding?

BYW, there are even scriptures that admit that the prophets were corrupted and tell us that if we want to gain wisdom, we have to scrap our traditions and do as Jesus suggests and seek God as the ones we think we know come from corrupted traditions and dogmas.

It seems that you are talking yourself into my position of not knowing anything about the supernatural.

Good for you.

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Gnostic Bishop

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Re: Can you accept that Man is greater than God?

PostSat Sep 09, 2017 8:51 pm

Creeper

"Where does morality come from?"

Morality comes out of empathy for others and is a part of our survival instincts as that same trait can be easily seen in other animal groups who rely on each other for survival.

Here is a link that clearly shows that morality, empathy and altruism is in us even as babies.

phpBB [video]


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DL
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slave_of_God

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Re: Can you accept that Man is greater than God?

PostSat Sep 09, 2017 11:16 pm

There's this thing called belief which becomes an unshakeable faith and feeling that God Is Watching you at each second...
My heart's at ease knowing what has missed me was never meant for me.
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Gnostic Bishop

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Re: Can you accept that Man is greater than God?

PostSun Sep 10, 2017 1:58 pm

slave_of_God wrote:There's this thing called belief which becomes an unshakeable faith and feeling that God Is Watching you at each second...


phpBB [video]


Do something about your paranoia.

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slave_of_God

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Re: Can you accept that Man is greater than God?

PostMon Sep 11, 2017 12:01 am

Paranoia? Talk more about love, being awestruck concerning His Greatness, and feeling at peace forever.
My heart's at ease knowing what has missed me was never meant for me.
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Re: Can you accept that Man is greater than God?

PostThu Sep 14, 2017 5:12 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:Creeper

"simply nature beyond our senses and reasoning,"

Correct. If beyond our senses and reasoning, which is the intelligent position to take, then how is it that you and others think there is any supernatural realm at all?

You cannot sense it so can you have faith in a God that cannot be sensed or understood in any way?

While direct empirical evidence is hard to come by, people have been witnessing strange things and been swapping stories around campfires for millennia. Even today, people still talk about the mandela effect, strange lights and sounds, UFOs, the bermuda and devil's triangles, angels, ghosts, aliens, demons, jinn, bigfoot and so on. I know some people are mad and some people are liars, but clearly we have been getting a glimpse at something and it isn't just mass delusions.

I don't understand how you can know that there are things that are beyond our understanding in the universe, then take such issue with the word "supernatural" which is commonly associated with such unexplained phenomena and just write off anything and everything that comes close to that territory as "speculative faith based nonsense". That is a very close minded approach my friend. There is obviously something to these things...



"Note that God is not religion. Religion is just what humans come up with to try and explain God in terms we can actually comprehend, it is inherently corrupted by our nature and limited understanding."


Correct again, and if corrupted understanding is all we have, why do you believe corrupt understanding?

...because it's all we have.

Was that a rhetorical question?


BYW, there are even scriptures that admit that the prophets were corrupted and tell us that if we want to gain wisdom, we have to scrap our traditions and do as Jesus suggests and seek God as the ones we think we know come from corrupted traditions and dogmas.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

It seems that you are talking yourself into my position of not knowing anything about the supernatural.

Good for you.

Thanks, it seems that you are talking yourself into my position that there are things that are currently beyond our understanding that could be described as 'supernatural'. So, good for you as well :Smile:


"Where does morality come from?"


Morality comes out of empathy for others and is a part of our survival instincts as that same trait can be easily seen in other animal groups who rely on each other for survival.

Here is a link that clearly shows that morality, empathy and altruism is in us even as babies.

phpBB [video]


Thank you for the video link, very interesting. It also shows that we are fundamentally selfish and biased. You might be interested to hear about the Fitrah, these guys are only just now observing what Muslims have known about for over a thousand years.

http://spiritualperception.org/fitrah-the-primordial-nature-of-man/
A fool thinks himself to be wise,
a wise man knows himself to be a fool.

Everything is meaningless, a chasing after the wind.
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Gnostic Bishop

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Re: Can you accept that Man is greater than God?

PostThu Sep 14, 2017 7:35 pm

slave_of_God wrote:Paranoia? Talk more about love, being awestruck concerning His Greatness, and feeling at peace forever.


Let's see if we can agree on what love is.

You talk a lot about faith and belief. Jesus said that he would know his people by their works and deeds.

I think recognizing love emanating from someone and directed towards another is recognized by the same way, works and deeds. That is how I show or express my love for others and they seem to do the same and that is how I recognize those who I have a true love with.

Love takes two as reciprocity is required for true love. One cannot say they love someone without works and deeds or at least the desire to return works and deeds from both parties. If only one party is involved, most would call that as stalking.

Do you agree with my description of true love?

If not, please give your description.

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Re: Can you accept that Man is greater than God?

PostThu Sep 14, 2017 8:02 pm

Creeper wrote:[

Thank you for the video link, very interesting. It also shows that we are fundamentally selfish and biased. You might be interested to hear about the Fitrah, these guys are only just now observing what Muslims have known about for over a thousand years.

http://spiritualperception.org/fitrah-the-primordial-nature-of-man/


I agree that we are fundamentally selfish and that is why we create both positive and negative biases at the same time.

That is the best way for us to insure we survive and thrive.

Your Fitrah makes many claims but they make claims that have to my knowledge never been proven.

For instance, that link suggests that a three year old will, with almost no instruction, develop a system to use as a language, yet studies with feral children show otherwise.

There is no argument that in the distant past, Islam was further ahead than the West in some thinking. That ended in about the 13 hundreds if memory serves, and today they are one of the most backwards people on earth, unfortunately.

Here I am looking at Nobel Prizes and who gets them, as well as the writings of Muslim leaders who complain about their own unproductive countries. I have an O.P. with links elsewhere.

I am not surprised that present research is confirming what the more ancient Muslims found minus the unproven parts which might be true and just unproven.

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DL
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slave_of_God

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Re: Can you accept that Man is greater than God?

PostFri Sep 15, 2017 11:05 pm

Have you even met Jesus? All you have is what you've read from the bible.

What i'm talking about is recognizing that my body and my mind couldn't have existed on its own. My parents had the same beginning as i and so did their parents and so on and so forth.

So, if every human being was non-existent prior to birth, then that means that A Supreme Force Organized our bodies and Blessed them with souls with the abilities to love, hate, reflect, think, etc, meaning that these abilities too come from That Force.
My heart's at ease knowing what has missed me was never meant for me.
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