Going against the conspiracy grain

Very confused how you are separately distinguishing Israel from Abraham through whom the blessings descend from. I also understand that some say that the experience of Africans is said to represent the curses the Bible mentions would happen to Israel because of their disobedience.

Abraham had Ishmael as a child as well as Isaac. According to the bible, Ishmael would be blessed, but the covenant would be through Isaac, and later, Jacob.

However, you cannot separately distinguish this from Abraham who was the reason Israel was blessed and the grandfather of jacob. Whatever verses you are using would also not be able to discredit people from being a descendent in northern areas. Jews were in Italy during the time of Christ. I know a lot of people talk about the whole thirteenth tribe thing and the khazars who converted to Judaism. However, there was another group of Jews who went west. When they were expelled from Spain they populated Portugal even further west. So many of them left, that Portugal may as well have been called Israel. Although, this region is also well known for cryptojews as well so its difficult to say how many of them were in this area, but if you are Portuguese, it is likely you are also descended from Judah. These are the ones known as Sephardic Jews.

The point I was making to Tara comes into play here about ancient Israelites (Joseph and Moses to be exact) being mistaken for ancient Egyptians. I dont think a modern Israeli, or Sephardic Jews would be mistaken with the ancient Egyptians. If these three groups were in one place, I think you could easily tell them apart when that shouldnt be the case (according to the bible). Whats your opinion on that?

This would demonstrate how they were scattered and no one nation represents this phenomenon. I am very curious what verses you are using that are isolating anyone as the real Israelites. I need verses please. However, I agree that you can be a descendent and not practice Judaism, which is a religion not a race.

I agree that the Israelites were scattered across the world. I just also see it that whereever they are, they'd look like the ancient Egyptians. If they dont, then that means they intermingled with the surrounding people. What is certain is that the bible says they will be regathered BY God (not bankers) and brought into their land again. Since this hasnt happened, its either the bible is a myth, or it will happen in the future...

Deuteronomy 28's curses to be exact is what Im referring. The chapter says that the curses will be a sign on the descendants FOREVER.

Heres something I said in my first post:

"I mean, the book the Israelis say speaks of them, says that the ancient Israelites looked like Ethiopians and Egyptians. But when we look up ancient Ethiopians and Egyptians they of course are way darker than the modern day Israelis. Again, none of the three "Abrahamic" faiths acknowledge any of this. "

Oh right so there's where the flaw in my knowledge lies, like I said I haven't read all of the Bible so I can't really compare the state of today's society with Bible verses. I can better understand what you're saying now.

Just saying I think its easier to compare 2 groups together to see if they look to be of the same nationality than it is to effectively meditate since I dont see that as an easy task.

Right, I finally got what you are on about

They definitely do not look the same, totally agreed. Never knew the Bible claims they are the same people either, that's quite odd indeed.

To me its like what are they trying to hide? After that I could have gotten into how their book says how certain things would happen to their people, that actually happened to ANOTHER group of people. All these things show a deception (imo) that they're pulling over the world. Maybe in another thread, where its applicable, you'll see me go further into this... You'll also see how nobody (not you exactly just others I have put this to) wants anything to do with addressing this discrepancy because it kinda forces people to rearrange how they looked at the bible and all things concerning it

This is indeed very interesting, and you should make a thread about it. I was looking in the wrong direction the whole time, i thought you were asking me to compare the way the Israelis live to the way the Ancient Egyptians lived.

Thanks for making it understandable for me

Glad we're finally on the same page. So that, along with the fact that our days/months/holidays show allegiance to every major historical civilization EXCEPT the Hebrews, as well as the pagan monuments (Statue of liberty, egyptian obelisks, god of kali at cern etc..) being place in their lands, and also them throughout history, having tried to tamper with the bible throughout history is why I pay closer attention to it. Its like they're trying to say "nothing to see here" and direct people's attention elsewhere. The egyptian thing was something we kinda got snagged on, but this was my overarching point in regards to the topic as to why there IS something to the Abrahamic faith that they do not seem to like.

Anyways it was no problem clarifying, thanks for the convo/perspective

You're right KM,

The covenant was first established with the second seed of Abraham, Isaac (peace and mercy of God be upon them both)

But the children of Israel rejected many prophets and messengers sent to them from their own bloodlines by God.

They kept breaking the covenant and asking for the Messiah - they didn't want any more prophets and messengers - they just wanted the glory of the kingdom of God.

They had gone from immaterial spiritually inclined God conscious folk to - materially inclined selfish folk.

So God sent to them, The Messiah, Jesus Pbuh. That's who they were awaiting, the Messiah. But they were not prepared.

And they rejected him.

That was the straw which broke the camels back. The covenant was now broken, because the Messiah was the fulfilment of Judaic eschatology buuuuut - they rejected him, so, the inversions HAVE TO COME INTO PLAY.

God does not break HIS promise, and God is sublte - HE fulfilled HIS promise by way of inversion and still, the children of Israel are willfully ignorant - Israeli settlers are irreligious and totally atheist today.

Inversions.

They do no have the Kingdom of God in their hearts. Not even on their tongue.

On the old board, Khadeejah posted a thread in which she explained contextually from the comparatives how the covenant shifted from Israel to Arabia, with the advent of Prophethood in Muhammad pbuh - the direct descendant of Ishmael pbuh.

But that info would be better suited to the religion section. So I won't go into it now.

Scimi

The point I was making to Tara comes into play here about ancient Israelites (Joseph and Moses to be exact) being mistaken for ancient Egyptians. I dont think a modern Israeli, or Sephardic Jews would be mistaken with the ancient Egyptians. If these three groups were in one place, I think you could easily tell them apart when that shouldnt be the case (according to the bible). Whats your opinion on that?

Interesting. There are a couple things that I consider in regards to what you have said because I have not completely formed a conclusion on this subject yet.

The first thing that would come to mind is that when Joseph and Moses are easily mistaken as Egyptians, this would have been thousands of years ago. When the 10 tribes were taken into captivity in Assyria, they went north east. It is from here that they are scattered and lose their identity. It would stand to reason that many continued to go north, which would have resulted in genetic change. Some could have also returned south. However, the fact that Moses and Joseph are said to resemble Egyptians in scripture also means that there were a lot of people who were Egyptians who would not be part of the curses from Deuteronomy 28.

My next consideration is from Zechariah 6 identifying that the four horses from Revelation 6. It gives a direction for each horse but the red horse to go. "The one with the black horses is going to the land of the north, the white horses are going after them, but the dappled horses are going to the land of the south." (Zechariah 6:6).

"I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth." (Revelation 6:8).

I believe this is why Africa has experienced something similar to the curses in Deuteronomy.

Zechariah says the black horse will go north and the black horse, or the third seal in Revelation, relate an economic burden. It is hard to dispute that European nations didn't institute the present global economic system that has been a blessing and a curse on the nations (Zechariah 6:6; Revelation 6:5-6).

Zechariah says "Then He summoned me saying, “See, those going to the land of the north have pacified My Spirit in the northern land.”(Zechariah 6:8).

It is also hard to dispute that European nations in the north are not unique in establishing an absence of Christian persecution, or a pacifying of His Spirit that has allowed Christianity to grow in ways it has not been able to in many places because of varying degrees of persecution. The fifth seal also describes the saints who were told to wait a little longer after a description of the four riders is given (Revelation 6:9-11).

Therefore, these passages match very well and lead me to believe that Africa is a general way of identifying the curses of the fourth seal, not from Deuteronomy 28.

My final consideration is that the Jews were never in Egypt the way we have been told and this is the result of the corruption of the priests that we believe this. There are people who make a strong case that the Israelites never have gone to Egypt because Egypt was very advanced and kept records that few ancient civilations were able to accomplish. It is concerning to me that there isn't something obvious within ancient Egyptian literature to say that the Israelites were there. It is suggested that they were enslaved in Arabic lands who were known to keep slaves.

I am undecided on this. However, I do believe that the Jewish priests tried to corrupt Christian writings many times in an attempt to persecute us. You have to understand that Christianity welcomed the Gentiles, which would offend a Jewish priest among other things which offend them in Christianity, which would cause them to try to retain certain privileges for themselves by withholding information. So, basically, the Bible isn't wrong. I just believe it is withholding information the priests didn't think anyone but them deserved to know. This would include something like this and further prove what I have been researching, which is that this is the definition of the mystery of lawlessness spoken of in 2 Thessalonians 2:7.

In the church, we have had the writings of the law, prophets, and the New Testament writings. Although, the Jews had the "oral law" besides this, which cannot even be contained in the Talmud. They don't write a lot down, and this would be an example of withholding information that would help us further understand the answers to questions like these.

However, like I said before, I am not 100 percent decided on this subject and I appreciate the opporutnity to discuss this with you.

You're right KM,

The covenant was first established with the second seed of Abraham, Isaac (peace and mercy of God be upon them both)

But the children of Israel rejected many prophets and messengers sent to them from their own bloodlines by God.

They kept breaking the covenant and asking for the Messiah - they didn't want any more prophets and messengers - they just wanted the glory of the kingdom of God.

They had gone from immaterial spiritually inclined God conscious folk to - materially inclined selfish folk.

So God sent to them, The Messiah, Jesus Pbuh. That's who they were awaiting, the Messiah. But they were not prepared.

And they rejected him.

That was the straw which broke the camels back. The covenant was now broken, because the Messiah was the fulfilment of Judaic eschatology buuuuut - they rejected him, so, the inversions HAVE TO COME INTO PLAY.

God does not break HIS promise, and God is sublte - HE fulfilled HIS promise by way of inversion and still, the children of Israel are willfully ignorant - Israeli settlers are irreligious and totally atheist today.

Inversions.

They do no have the Kingdom of God in their hearts. Not even on their tongue.

On the old board, Khadeejah posted a thread in which she explained contextually from the comparatives how the covenant shifted from Israel to Arabia, with the advent of Prophethood in Muhammad pbuh - the direct descendant of Ishmael pbuh.

But that info would be better suited to the religion section. So I won't go into it now.

Scimi

Here was the promise to Abraham according to the bible though...

Genesis 15
13 Then the Lord said to him, “Know for certain that for four hundred years your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own and that they will be enslaved and mistreated there. 14 But I will punish the nation they serve as slaves, and afterward they will come out with great possession

This never happened throughout the history of the "Jews" in Israel so either God was incorrect, this is a mistranslation/human entry, or the bible is a myth as a whole. As far as the covenant going from Israel to Ishmael, the bible says otherwise. Of course I understand you dont believe the bible, but thats also why I dont believe the covenant was taken from Israel and given to another people.

Interesting. There are a couple things that I consider in regards to what you have said because I have not completely formed a conclusion on this subject yet.

The first thing that would come to mind is that when Joseph and Moses are easily mistaken as Egyptians, this would have been thousands of years ago. When the 10 tribes were taken into captivity in Assyria, they went north east. It is from here that they are scattered and lose their identity. It would stand to reason that many continued to go north, which would have resulted in genetic change. Some could have also returned south. However, the fact that Moses and Joseph are said to resemble Egyptians in scripture also means that there were a lot of people who were Egyptians who would not be part of the curses from Deuteronomy 28.

If your position is that they went North, intermingled, and this resulted in a change of appearance, then they wouldnt even be Israelites anymore. If your position is that they went North, and by the way of a change in climate/environment came a change in appearance, then I'd say that is extremely unlikely.

The ancient Egyptians were African, and thus, modern day Jews/Yemen Jews wouldnt be confused for them. Thats without mentioning that the modern day Jews have NEVER lost their heritage. While Africans abroad, did lose knowledge of their heritage through slavery.

My next consideration is from Zechariah 6 identifying that the four horses from Revelation 6. It gives a direction for each horse but the red horse to go. "The one with the black horses is going to the land of the north, the white horses are going after them, but the dappled horses are going to the land of the south." (Zechariah 6:6).

"I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth." (Revelation 6:8).

I believe this is why Africa has experienced something similar to the curses in Deuteronomy.

Zechariah says the black horse will go north and the black horse, or the third seal in Revelation, relate an economic burden. It is hard to dispute that European nations didn't institute the present global economic system that has been a blessing and a curse on the nations (Zechariah 6:6; Revelation 6:5-6).

Zechariah says "Then He summoned me saying, “See, those going to the land of the north have pacified My Spirit in the northern land.”(Zechariah 6:8).

Personally speaking, when I see Deuteronomy 28 say that the curses in the chapter would be a SIGN on the descendants of Israel, then I take that to mean that the descendants of Israel would be the ones who go through said curses. The so call JewISH people do not match the curses outlined in Deuteronomy 28. Certain Africans in Africa and abroad do.

I think Africa is in the condition its in because of that, and because of colonialism holding it back.

It is also hard to dispute that European nations in the north are not unique in establishing an absence of Christian persecution, or a pacifying of His Spirit that has allowed Christianity to grow in ways it has not been able to in many places because of varying degrees of persecution. The fifth seal also describes the saints who were told to wait a little longer after a description of the four riders is given (Revelation 6:9-11).

Therefore, these passages match very well and lead me to believe that Africa is a general way of identifying the curses of the fourth seal, not from Deuteronomy 28.

I think it depends on how you look at it. I think, with some, not all European nations, they may have a christian nation at home, but their foreign policies arent so "christian" so to say. I cant act as if what you're saying doesnt fit, I just dont see why I should superimpose it over the fact that alot of the curses that Deuteronomy 29 laid out for the descendants of Israel, apply to things that happened in Africa and abroad to "Africans". I think that says something..

My final consideration is that the Jews were never in Egypt the way we have been told and this is the result of the corruption of the priests that we believe this. There are people who make a strong case that the Israelites never have gone to Egypt because Egypt was very advanced and kept records that few ancient civilations were able to accomplish. It is concerning to me that there isn't something obvious within ancient Egyptian literature to say that the Israelites were there. It is suggested that they were enslaved in Arabic lands who were known to keep slaves.

I am undecided on this. However, I do believe that the Jewish priests tried to corrupt Christian writings many times in an attempt to persecute us. You have to understand that Christianity welcomed the Gentiles, which would offend a Jewish priest among other things which offend them in Christianity, which would cause them to try to retain certain privileges for themselves by withholding information. So, basically, the Bible isn't wrong. I just believe it is withholding information the priests didn't think anyone but them deserved to know. This would include something like this and further prove what I have been researching, which is that this is the definition of the mystery of lawlessness spoken of in 2 Thessalonians 2:7.

In the church, we have had the writings of the law, prophets, and the New Testament writings. Although, the Jews had the "oral law" besides this, which cannot even be contained in the Talmud. They don't write a lot down, and this would be an example of withholding information that would help us further understand the answers to questions like these.

However, like I said before, I am not 100 percent decided on this subject and I appreciate the opporutnity to discuss this with you.

Concerning the lack of sources in Egypt about Israel's presence there, its concerning I guess. But on the other hand, its like the say "absence of evidence isnt evidence of absence". It could be a variety of things as to why we dont see mention of it. It could be that the Egyptians didnt write of losses they took. It could be that we just havent found it yet. Or it could that something has been found, but "they" havent released it to the public. Or the ultimate other choice, its all a myth. What leads me to believe that Israel was in Egypt in one time or another is the moon god, "Yah" being similar to the name of the Hebrew's God. I think after Israel left in such a fashion that the bible suggests they did, certain Egyptians tried to start worshiping their God. No proof of this of course, but I personally believe they were in Egypt.

As far as it being christians vs priests, I think you can say that NOW. But at first, well in my view of course, I think it was priest vs TRUE Israelites to where they were editing the bible up so to confound the Israelites. Now that thats been done, I think they're turning their attention to the world. Kinda like how in America they seemed focused on oppressing one group early on, but now are turning to the rest of the groups.. Of course this is just my take on things.

How did my thread get so far off topic?

I would like to return to the original question in a smaller format;

Was Satan part of Gods plan for humanity or not? Were we supposed to know about good and evil or not? And if not, why are we punished for it?

How did my thread get so far off topic?

It may not be the direction you wanted your thread to go in, but Im not seeing how its so far off topic. Its still discussing the elite's relationship with the Abrahamic religions which seems to be what your opening post was alluding to. Just that instead of them using it to their purposes, I suggested that they mixed stuff around so that they could apply it to themselves and then, start enacting a one world gov't. Definitely relevant to the topic, but its your thread so I definitely wont push it in a direction you dont want it to go (others seemed to lose interest in that convo that was going on anyways).

@ KoncreteMind

There is a lot of evidence that would be missing in trying to suggest that the only true Israelites were in Africa. For one, there is little evidence of Torah throughout Africa. Africa has been scoured by the western world and nowhere do you see anyone practicing the Sabbath. Even while, there is evidence that of Jews in the Iberian peninsula practicing the Sabbath in secret for hundreds of years. There is no record of the Sabbath taking place in Africa.

The second problem is that you would be assuming that they were under a curse this entire time. I find that difficult to believe. Nowhere does it say it would last forever. It was a conditional curse that would only be implemented if the people were disobedient. It could very easily be reversed if there were obedience, which would mean practicing Torah under the Old Covenant, and there is no record of practicing the Sabbath like I have already mentioned.

The third problem is that the Greek historian Herodotus never mentions Jews being present in Palestine. The fact that there is no evidence to place the Jews in Egypt or Palestine in ancient historical records is a problem. It is not something that can be swept aside. Egypt is known for archaeological study. The Western world has played a significant role in the excavation of the area.

There is nothing that suggests an exodus took place in Egypt and there is little evidence that the Jews resided in what we call Israel either according to ancient history. Herodotus referred to it as Palestine when he was writing his famous histories.

However, operation magic carpet ride forced thousands of Yemenite Jews to move to Palestine in 1949. Yemen has a long history of a large Jewish population for thousands of years and the red passes through a narrow gap between Ethiopia and Yemen. The people of Yemen know this history goes back thousands of years.



Yemen has also not had the considerable archaeological attention that Egypt has had.

An article from Hareetz suggests that Saudi Arabia has evidence of early Jewish history and Christian history prior to establishing Islam in the area too.

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/archaeolo ... m-1.709010

"Iraqi anthropologist and historian Fadel al-Rubai has produced a powerful body of work directly challenging Orientalist interpretations of Arab and Muslim history and local Arab think tanks."http://english.al-akhbar.com/node/1166

Unfortunately, much of this man's work is in Arabic, but what is available in English is still informative.

Egypt has been an open book to the world, but Saudi Arabia is on lockdown to any real investigation of the matter, and they are friends with Israel.

phpBB [video]

If the Biblical stories took place in Yemen, this would explain why Ethiopians are mentioned so many times in scripture. It would mean that the Jews were enslaved by another Arab tribe and they would look like Arabs. This would mean they would have similar features of the Sephardic Jews on the Iberian peninsula who also resemble Arabs.

I don't know if you have ever noticed that King Abdullah and Benjamin Netanyahu have some similar facial features. It bothers me a little to tell you the truth.





Look at their noses and the facial lines they have when they smile. I would love to be able to see King Abdullah's ears. I have a hunch they are big too.

Taragaia maybe I have found your conspiracy my friend. Something like this would change everything for all three Abrahamic religions if there was a way to study Biblical archaeology in southern Saudi Arabia and Yemen. We might all come to learn that we have been bamboozled by some ancient rabbis. This has already been my theory for some time.

Taragaia maybe I have found your conspiracy my friend. Something like this would change everything for all three Abrahamic religions if there was a way to study Biblical archaeology in southern Saudi Arabia and Yemen. We might all come to learn that we have been bamboozled by some ancient rabbis. This has already been my theory for some time.

Thank you for this post

I have read theories like these before, and there is indeed a big question mark made by science about the historical accuracy of the Exodus. Many believe it cannot have taken place in Egypt, which renders the whole story to not much more than myths and legends.

You covered most of it in your post which I am very grateful for, thank you.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_for_the_Exodus
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/staks-ros ... 08123.html

However, I know you still believe in the Bible, so now I am really curious why you do. If you believe this to be possible, how come that you are convinced of the Bible?