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Psychiatry - Mind control or science?

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Taragaia

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Psychiatry - Mind control or science?

PostFri Mar 03, 2017 7:20 am

Lately I have been delving into Scientology material out of curiosity of what drives these people, and while I disagree with the ideology as a whole I did think they have an interesting perspective on psychiatry. I had never questioned before whether pschiatry is a legitimate kind of science before, but now I am actually starting to wonder.

I think they have a point when they say psychiatry is at best a shady business, if not an entire system of mind control and lies to the general public. After all, what exactly makes for a ''normal'' person? Wouldn't everyone be some kind of ''crazy'' if we put them through all the tests people who get admitted to mental hospitals get put through?

Psychiatric "diagnosis" can result in a person who seems normal to the average person, and who is law-abiding, spending his or her whole life imprisoned in a mental institution rather than living in freedom. Psychiatric "diagnosis" can defeat the proper functioning of the system of justice, examples being a person being found not guilty by reason of insanity and avoiding punishment for a serious crime, or a good parent losing custody of his or her child.


Besides, people who get themselves tested for a psychiatric disorder already are subject to confirmation bias. They think something is wrong with them, and they come in telling people they are not 'normal'. The job of the Psychiatrist is to define what kind of abnormal they are. And there is plenty of room for that in the DSM 5.

Some examples taken from here : http://www.wayneramsay.com/diagnosis.htm

Going to bed late and sleeping late is a "Circadian Rhythm Sleep Disorder...Delayed Sleep Phase Type" in both DSM-IV-TR (2000, p. 622) and DSM-5 (2013, pp. 390-391), but what if you're an early riser? Might that also be a "disorder"? Yes, in this case the diagnosis (actually description) is "Circadian Rhythm Sleep-Wake Disorder ... Advanced Sleep-Wake Type" (DSM-5, p. 393; in DSM-IV-TR, p. 624, it is one of the "Unspecified Type" Circadian Rhythm Sleep Disorders). DSM-5 says "Advanced sleep phase type is characterized by sleep-​wake times that are several hours earlier than desired or conventional times" and that "Individuals with advanced sleep phase type are 'morning types'" (p. 393). According to psychiatry's current "diagnostic" standards, if you don't sleep and wake up at "conven­tional times" you have a mental disorder.


Well, I am an early bird. Apparently that's a disorder now. :Crazy:

Do you or have you ever suspected your spouse or intimate partner of infidelity? In that case you have or had "Obsessional jealousy", a subtype of "Other Specified Obsessive-Compulsive and Related Disorder" defined as "nondelusional preoccupation with a partner's perceived infidelity" (pp. 263-264). No, that's not a misprint: This particular disorder is defined as "nondelusional", but it is still a mental disorder in DSM-5, as if a person should not care very much about a spouse's or intimate partner's infidelity.


Do you often like to get yourself a midnight snack? In that case you have "Night eating syndrome" defined as "Recurrent episodes of night eating, as manifested by eating after awakening from sleep or by excessive food consumption after the evening meal" (DSM-5, p. 354).


Etc. I got myself an extra disorder there. And so on. The rest can be found in the article.

Of course, we have all seen the origins of psychiatry. Mental asylums where people would be locked away from society for the rest of their lives in often dire or worse conditions than prisoners, sometimes shackled to the wall or electroshocked. These barbaric practices are presumably over, but this is where psychiatry came from. And to this day, being diagnosed as mentally ill is incredibly damaging for your future perspectives and often done at a very early age too.

More and more children seem to be diagnosed very early in life with serious conditions that might threaten their chances at a normal existence way before anybody can be sure about their developement.

What do you think, is psychiatry a legitimate science or another system to control the masses?
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Re: Psychiatry - Mind control or science?

PostFri Mar 03, 2017 11:35 am

Great thread! It actually reminded me of this article and i know you will love it!
The DSM-5 is now larger than ever, and it includes disorders such as "Obedience Defiance
Disorder" (ODD), defined as refusing to lick boots and follow false authority. Rapists who feel sexual arousal during their
raping activities are given the excuse that they have
"Paraphilic coercive disorder" and therefore are not responsible for their actions.........
Allen Frances chaired the DSM-IV that was released in 1994. He now admits it was a huge mistake that has resulted in the mass over diagnosis of people who are actually quite normal. The DSM-IV "...inadvertently
contributed to three false
epidemics -- attention deficit disorder, autism and childhood bipolar disorder," writes Allen in an LA Times opinion piece.
http://naturalnews.com/038322_DSM-5_psy ... nosis.html

It also includes a Hoarding disorder. I always thought i was mentally healthy. Gee, according to DSM-V, i need medication for my hoarding issues.
https://www.elementsbehavioralhealth.co ... diagnoses/
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Re: Psychiatry - Mind control or science?

PostFri Mar 03, 2017 1:39 pm

Karlysymon wrote:Great thread! It actually reminded me of this article and i know you will love it!
The DSM-5 is now larger than ever, and it includes disorders such as "Obedience Defiance
Disorder" (ODD), defined as refusing to lick boots and follow false authority. Rapists who feel sexual arousal during their
raping activities are given the excuse that they have
"Paraphilic coercive disorder" and therefore are not responsible for their actions.........
Allen Frances chaired the DSM-IV that was released in 1994. He now admits it was a huge mistake that has resulted in the mass over diagnosis of people who are actually quite normal. The DSM-IV "...inadvertently
contributed to three false
epidemics -- attention deficit disorder, autism and childhood bipolar disorder," writes Allen in an LA Times opinion piece.
http://naturalnews.com/038322_DSM-5_psy ... nosis.html

It also includes a Hoarding disorder. I always thought i was mentally healthy. Gee, according to DSM-V, i need medication for my hoarding issues.
https://www.elementsbehavioralhealth.co ... diagnoses/


Do you hoard? I've always thought of hoarding as a trait of someone with mental instability. That doesn't mean one is crazy or not healthy in other aspects, but it doesn't seem normal to collect things to the point of hazard like the diagnosis states. I would say that I have a small pack rat-ish hoarding issue. I tend to get attached to purchases I've made and even when they are old or broken and I know with about 98% certainty I will never use it again, or at the very least probably wouldn't realize if it disappeared, I still can't bring myself to throw certain things out. However, I've never gotten to the point where I'm cluttering the floor of my house or blocking walkways and such, which seems to be what the hoarding diagnosis depicts.

people with hoarding disorder have a conscious, ongoing urge to accumulate possessions, as well as corresponding feelings of anxiety or mental anguish whenever those possessions get thrown away. While some people affected by the disorder accumulate valuable items, most affected individuals accumulate things with limited or no real-world value, such as books, old magazines or newspapers, self-made notes, outdated clothing, or old mail.

People with hoarding disorder may accumulate possessions in locations that include their houses, yards or vehicles, or in their offices or other workplace settings. Whatever the specific location involved, the collected material typically produces enough clutter to limit or prevent the practical use of that space. In some cases, the collected material also produces an active, ongoing danger in the form of such things as fire hazards or hygiene hazards. In addition, in order to qualify for a hoarding disorder diagnosis, affected individuals must experience a disruption in important aspects of their lives (work, home life, social interaction, etc.) as a direct result of their hoarding behaviors.


I definitely have an issue with old clothes. I probably wear 10% or less of my t-shirts and one or two pair of pants out of like 6-8 pair. I know that I wouldn't likely miss most of my old shirts, but when I go to throw them out I think, "Well, I did like this shirt when I bought it, maybe I will want to wear it again one day." but then I still never wear it. I think this behavior is rather normal, however, it's still not totally healthy or rational. But the diagnosis isn't referring to this mild collecting behavior, but rather the bolded portion above, so if that portion applies to you then perhaps you do have a hoarding issue. If not, then I don't think they are saying you do.

As for psychiatry in general, I think it can be very beneficial, though I'm sure it isn't always. Before my cousin passed away last year he was having a lot of identity issues and experiencing semi-frequent mental breakdowns. He had one of these mental breakdowns in my presence, I still have video of it on my phone because I was concerned, now I can't bring myself to watch it or delete it, and afterwards I called his mom and insisted that she help him find a therapist/psychiatrist to talk to and help figure out what he was going through. He began seeing a therapist a few weeks later and he claimed that it was helping a lot. However, a week or so before his death he told me he'd stopped going because he no longer cared, which I personally took to be something of a bi-polar mood swing thing. I'd believed he was bi-polar for a long time but he'd never been diagnosed.

That anecdote aside, I agree that things like psych wards and homes can be very scary and are probably often exploitative or abusive due to our unfortunate human nature of apathy and selfishness. I've never been in one or had any personal experience with them so I can't speak very strongly about it. Most of my knowledge comes from television where they show very dramatic versions of these places.
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Re: Psychiatry - Mind control or science?

PostFri Mar 03, 2017 5:31 pm

My personal opinion on it, is that its a little bit of both. At the nitty gritty, I think the study of the mind is a science just like biology or chemisty. I just think they use the knowledge they get from studying to further their attempt at enacting "mind control" over the masses.

Also as a sidenote, they already have a law in California to which they can involuntarily hold someone they believe is at "risk to hisself/herself and/or others" which is kinda concerning

Section 5150 is a section of the California Welfare and Institutions Code (WIC) (in particular, the Lanterman–Petris–Short Act or "LPS") which authorizes a qualified officer or clinician to involuntarily confine a person suspected to have a mental disorder that makes them a danger to themselves, a danger to others, and/or gravely disabled. A qualified officer, which includes any California peace officer, as well as any specifically-designated county clinician, can request the confinement after signing a written declaration stating the psychiatric diagnosis that the diagnosing medical professional believes to be the cause or reason why they believe the patient to be "a danger to themselves or others" or the psychiatric disorder that has rendered the patient incapable of making their own medical treatment decisions.
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Re: Psychiatry - Mind control or science?

PostFri Mar 03, 2017 10:03 pm

Loki wrote:I would say that I have a small pack rat-ish
hoarding issue. I tend to get
at tached to purchases I've made and even when they are old or
broken and I know with about 98% certainty I will never use it again, or at the very least probably wouldn't realize if it disappeared, I still can't bring myself to throw certain things out. However, I've never gotten to the point where I'm cluttering the floor of my house or blocking walkways and such, which seems to be what the hoarding diagnosis depicts.

This is exactly me. And iam a neat freak. No clutter. DSM stated
While some people affected by the disorder accumulate
valuable items, most affected individuals accumulate things with limited or no real-world value, such as books, old
magazines or newspapers,
self-made notes, outdated clothing, or old mail.

I hold onto all that. I enjoy letter writing and i have mail from the last 15yrs (letters, cards, afew notes). Also i have friends where postal mail is strictly the mode of communication so obviously, i can't throw away my correspondence,more like you would keep old mail in your inbox.
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Re: Psychiatry - Mind control or science?

PostFri Mar 03, 2017 10:13 pm

Karlysymon wrote:
Loki wrote:I would say that I have a small pack rat-ish
hoarding issue. I tend to get
at tached to purchases I've made and even when they are old or
broken and I know with about 98% certainty I will never use it again, or at the very least probably wouldn't realize if it disappeared, I still can't bring myself to throw certain things out. However, I've never gotten to the point where I'm cluttering the floor of my house or blocking walkways and such, which seems to be what the hoarding diagnosis depicts.

This is exactly me. And iam a neat freak. No clutter. DSM stated
While some people affected by the disorder accumulate
valuable items, most affected individuals accumulate things with limited or no real-world value, such as books, old
magazines or newspapers,
self-made notes, outdated clothing, or old mail.

I hold onto all that. I enjoy letter writing and i have mail from the last 15yrs (letters, cards, afew notes). Also i have friends where postal mail is strictly the mode of communication so obviously, i can't throw away my correspondence,more like you would keep old mail in your inbox.


Right, I would say that so long as it is a thing you do that doesn't negatively impact your life or living environment then it would not be classified as legitimate hoarding. The diagnosis specifically states in the part that I bolded that it is considered hoarding when "the collected material typically produces enough clutter to limit or prevent the practical use of that space. In some cases, the collected material also produces an active, ongoing danger in the form of such things as fire hazards or hygiene hazards." At worst you and I, are like borderline hoarders, but I think that the mental disorder or abnormality comes when a person disregards their health and safety in favor of collecting and hoarding rather useless items. If at any point you are renting a storage unit in order to store boxes and boxes of letters and correspondence then yeah, you might be a hoarder haha. But at the same time, no psychiatrist is going to medicate you or sentence you to a facility for simply collecting things in an orderly fashion. It may be worth someone stepping in, however, if your home was your chosen storage unit and there were boxes of letters blocking exits and windows and sitting next to your furnace because there is no place else to put it. Then you are endangering yourself in order to keep useless paper that has a sentimental value, but that you will likely never look at again for any reason. I would call that mentally ill personally. Not the worst kind of mentally ill for sure, but not "normal" all the same.
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Re: Psychiatry - Mind control or science?

PostSat Mar 04, 2017 1:59 am

Loki wrote: I would call that mentally ill personally. Not the worst kind of mentally ill for sure, but not "normal" all the same.



My OP is not intended to question that there are people out there with a legitimate mental illness, I am pretty sure there are. I have seen plenty of people around me suffer with them, and I am saddened to see that our society and psychiatry does not really have an answer for them.

Sure, some of them have improvement in their lives through medication or regular visits to a therapist, but the question is whether visiting a therapist should come with a label that might damage your or other prospects in life. Shouldn't it be normal that we all need someone to talk to once in a while? Why do we need a ''diagnosis'' in order to talk to a professional about our self perceived problems?

If we feel we fail at life or have other problems, shouldn't that just be seen as a part of existence everyone comes across sooner or later? Just like we all accept mourning our beloved people's death, shouldn't we be able to accept someone struggling with life without directly labeling them in some fashion?

Psychiatry is an industry thriving on labeling an often impermanent problem with a permanent condition, making someone into the problem instead of seeing with them how to heal from it. That's where my doubts come into play.

Instead of helping you deal with negative feelings by confronting them, it is often ''here, take this pill and you will feel fine'', which is the opposite of a solution. As soon as you don't have the pills, the problems recurs. Then they say you have a ''relapse'' but in fact you were never cured to begin with. I think that's questionable, and a recurring thing in psychiatry.
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Re: Psychiatry - Mind control or science?

PostMon Mar 06, 2017 9:40 am

Taragaia wrote:
Psychiatry is an industry thriving on labeling an often
impermanent problem with a
permanent condition, making someone into the problem
instead of seeing with them
how to heal from it. That's where my doubts come into
play.
Instead of helping you deal with negative feelings by confronting them, it is often ''here, take this pill and you will feel fine'', which is the opposite of a solution. As soon as you don't have the pills, the problems recurs. Then they say you have a
''relapse'' but in fact you were
never cured to begin with. I think that's questionable, and a recurring thing in psychiatry.




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Re: Psychiatry - Mind control or science?

PostMon Mar 06, 2017 1:45 pm

Taragaia wrote:
Loki wrote: I would call that mentally ill personally. Not the worst kind of mentally ill for sure, but not "normal" all the same.



My OP is not intended to question that there are people out there with a legitimate mental illness, I am pretty sure there are. I have seen plenty of people around me suffer with them, and I am saddened to see that our society and psychiatry does not really have an answer for them.

Sure, some of them have improvement in their lives through medication or regular visits to a therapist, but the question is whether visiting a therapist should come with a label that might damage your or other prospects in life. Shouldn't it be normal that we all need someone to talk to once in a while? Why do we need a ''diagnosis'' in order to talk to a professional about our self perceived problems?

If we feel we fail at life or have other problems, shouldn't that just be seen as a part of existence everyone comes across sooner or later? Just like we all accept mourning our beloved people's death, shouldn't we be able to accept someone struggling with life without directly labeling them in some fashion?

Psychiatry is an industry thriving on labeling an often impermanent problem with a permanent condition, making someone into the problem instead of seeing with them how to heal from it. That's where my doubts come into play.

Instead of helping you deal with negative feelings by confronting them, it is often ''here, take this pill and you will feel fine'', which is the opposite of a solution. As soon as you don't have the pills, the problems recurs. Then they say you have a ''relapse'' but in fact you were never cured to begin with. I think that's questionable, and a recurring thing in psychiatry.


What I've learned just from some brief research while responding to this topic is that psychiatry is just a specific field of therapy. Psychiatrists are who you go to see to have prescriptions filled or sometimes have a prescription prescribed. Therapists are the people you would go to see to just talk and if after talking for an allotted amount of time the therapist feels confident in a diagnosis and you are open to medication they will then send you to a psychiatrist.

Alternatively, if you are sentenced to a psych ward as part of a criminal sentence or parole or even if you self-check-in, then you will be dealing with mostly psychiatrists I believe, and that is where the scary part is because therapists tend to be more highly trained, especially in understanding and dealing with individuals and their behaviors. A psychiatrist is more likely to just dope you up.

I agree though that we need to eliminate the societal stigma associated with seeing a therapist. While I feel that I'm rather well-adjusted and healthy mentally, I know that I could probably still benefit greatly from seeing a therapist. The only reason I don't is a financial one. Personally, I think every citizen of the US should be given like twelve hours of pro bono therapy per year. Two hours of talking things out a month or one good month of talking things out.
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Re: Psychiatry - Mind control or science?

PostTue Mar 07, 2017 5:10 am

Loki wrote:
What I've learned just from some brief research while responding to this topic is that psychiatry is just a specific field of therapy. Psychiatrists are who you go to see to have prescriptions filled or sometimes have a prescription prescribed. Therapists are the people you would go to see to just talk and if after talking for an allotted amount of time the therapist feels confident in a diagnosis and you are open to medication they will then send you to a psychiatrist.


That is true in most cases, but the psychiatrist makes the decision in the end. I've been through a few psychiatric assessments in my life, and usually they start with you meeting the psych and the therapist, then doing some talks and tests with the therapist and then the psych making a diagnosis on which your further treatment will be based. As soon as you have any kind of diagnosis, it will be with you for life and in every medical record you have. Unlike regular illness which gets removed when you are better, when you stop therapy because you don't need it anymore you're still stigmatized.

Loki wrote:Alternatively, if you are sentenced to a psych ward as part of a criminal sentence or parole or even if you self-check-in, then you will be dealing with mostly psychiatrists I believe, and that is where the scary part is because therapists tend to be more highly trained, especially in understanding and dealing with individuals and their behaviors. A psychiatrist is more likely to just dope you up.


Yes, a therapist is a talker and a psychiatrist is a doctor that mainly prescribes medicine. Or whatever is deemed appropriate to restrict someone's behavior at the time.

Loki wrote:I agree though that we need to eliminate the societal stigma associated with seeing a therapist. While I feel that I'm rather well-adjusted and healthy mentally, I know that I could probably still benefit greatly from seeing a therapist. The only reason I don't is a financial one. Personally, I think every citizen of the US should be given like twelve hours of pro bono therapy per year. Two hours of talking things out a month or one good month of talking things out.



I think there is nothing wrong with therapy, I agree with you there like I said there should be no taboo on speaking with a therapist. However, the procedure to do so is what irks me. If you get to see a therapist, you're stuck with a label for the rest of your life. It shouldn't be that way, in most cases you should be cured if you leave unless you have the mental variety of a terminal illness. Instead, it seems that in the psychiatric industry all illnesses are (made) chronic and that's where my doubt comes from.

Most illnesses aren't chronic, why would a mental one always be there for the rest of your life? Psychiatry teaches people to believe they will never get better, they will always depend on medication and basically can't make decisions without doctors. That might be true for a few, but certainly not for the mass of children today we see diagnosed at a very early age with things like adhd and stuff. All they hear their whole lives is that they are ''crazy'' and 'different'', so no surprise that they turn out to be problematic adults.
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