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Transgender Operations!

Discussions and critical analysis of controversial social and cultural issues.
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Kung Fu

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Re: Transgender Operations!

PostFri Oct 24, 2014 7:04 pm

Loki wrote:
Lol, I wish taxes worked this way. Militaries would cease to exist in large capacities and healthcare, road care, schools, and fire departments would get most of the tax money because those are things people actually want.


We can wish, can't we :wink:
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justjess

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Re: Transgender Operations!

PostFri Oct 24, 2014 7:05 pm

Kung Fu wrote:
justjess wrote:do you understand how health insurance works?


This is Canada, I'm talking about.

even in public healthcare systems, the medical decisions of one person do not directly reflect the price for everyone else. insurance still works on a risk scheme and balances high cost people with low cost people. the price goes down the larger the pool. unless your government is directly paying all medical bills from the treasury and there is no intermediary insurance company - i dont know exactly how that works there.

ultimately i do not think in either scenario there are enough transexual people that it would effect anything even if they were paid for - with that said i still dont think they should be paid for, reasons stated earlier.
Scratch most feminists and underneath there is a woman who longs to be a sex object. The difference is that is not all she wants to be. ~Betty Rollin

"I don't really aspire to being rational. I'm more attracted to the irrational," she says. "There's no such thing as total rationality. That's something I've realized lately." - Scarlet Johansson
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Talijana

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Re: Transgender Operations!

PostWed Oct 29, 2014 3:14 am

I am a bit ambivalent about all this myself, as it stand in Australia, sex reassignment surgery is partially covered by medicare and there is a lot of opposition to this partial funding stating that it doesnt go far enough etc, however a lot of surgeries are partially funded and subject to long waiting lists including some very urgent ones as the public health system is under the pump. I had an ovarian tumour removed, under the free or medicare system it was partially funded, by I couldnt afford to wait 6 months for the surgery just in case it ruptured and I either died or was left totally infertile so my mother paid in excess of 10 grand to remove it privately but promptly.

I know people suffer from depression and anxiety if they genuinely feel at odds with their birth gender and I know this can result in self harm and suicides even, but it isnt an anti trans conspiracy and to be perfectly honest seeing as there are successful cancer treatments not funded at all by the government, certain vaccines that cost tens of thousands for brain tumours, I don't see how reassignment surgery trumps that in the heirarchy of social importance. And not just new vaccines, there are many conditions, complex and debilitating where the public health system doesnt cover all the costs or at all.

The other factor is whats the limit, okay there is surgery for the genitals, but many are campaigning for the complete package, which includes facial feminisation, voice changing surgery etc, fillers like restylane, silicone butt implants and breast implants etc and the government which can barely afford, apparently, cancer drugs should be responsible for this now?

Also, I have seen arguments about how breast cancer survivors who had mastectomies are allowed reconstructions under medicare and so should trans (the waiting lists are long so its not like you just BAM get a recon its a 3-5 year wait and not the whole cost is covered) in cases of radical mastectomies, ie no skin and nipples left at all, medicare covers half the cost at most leaving many women paying 20 grand plus...I found the politicisation of breast cancer survival very unnerving . And seeing as those women dont have the state cover the whole cost I dont see why it should cover the whole cost of a reassignment surgery. I would support state based health care loans that are interest free for many conditions. I think that is a really good idea. But not state responsibility in its entirety, there are conditions which need state funds more than this and afflict a greater proportion of the population. As much as I would like the state to give free health for all at all times, this is not possible, not even under a socialistic system.
“If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, Infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things thro' narrow chinks of his cavern.” William Blake
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Kung Fu

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Re: Transgender Operations!

PostWed Oct 29, 2014 1:31 pm

Exactly, Talijana! We have large amounts of men and women suffering from various other sicknesses and the government is wasting its time changing a perfectly healthy male into a woman and vice versa. The time and resources we spend on stupid bullshit is quite astounding.

Modern society has made people way too comfortable and think they can ask for anything now even if it means replacing their their private parts.

In places like Afghanistan, Serbia, Venezuela, and etc. if you asked for a sex change due to you feeling you were born in the wrong body, the government and people would tell you to shut up, go work, and support your loved ones.
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Suspiriorum

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Re: Transgender Operations!

PostSat Jan 10, 2015 2:52 pm

My younger brother has recently started saying things like "I think I should've been born a woman," or "I think I'm transgender." He has also recently started to make little wardrobe changes like wearing socks with pink zebra stripes, but nothing too drastic...yet. I have my doubts because every time he mentions it he says "I THINK I'm transgender" or "I THINK I should've been born a woman." Like he doesn't know for sure. And he's never mentioned being born in the wrong body until just a couple months ago. He's 18 now and on the autism spectrum so because of these things I think he is full of uncertainty and doesn't know who he is or what he really wants at this point in time.

But I agree with people who say there are things far more important that need funding. I wonder how many people get these operations and then end up regretting it later on. If people use their own money to pay for it, that tells me they are absolutely sure of what they're doing because nobody would put so many hours of hard work and such a large sum of money into something they don't really want. I don't even support government funding for plastic surgery unless you were disfigured in an accident, are deformed because of a surgery, or something like that. Not because you don't like the way you look.

Feminism seems widespread now but I feel it teaches there is more to a woman than what their body looks like or what kinds of clothes they wear. So maybe people will begin to agree with that philosophy someday and they'll feel more comfortable in whatever body they're in because they'll realize their body parts don't define them as a person.
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Re: Transgender Operations!

PostSat Jan 17, 2015 9:18 pm

We're really hitting rock bottom if we start to spend taxes on transgender operations while everywhere regimes are cutting back on some basic essentials, like pension funds. Firstly it strikes me as hypocritical, and like so many other social evolutions of our liberal society, to accuse transgender critics of not accepting people that are different, while those very transgender people are unable to accept what they are themselves, changing that which nature gave them. Opposing the stereotypes created by supposed social constructions while at the same time trying to become the stereotype.

Since gender identity issues are psychological, why should we try to solve it physically? If they have mental issues, they should see professional counsel like any other human without a gender identity crisis. The worst nonsensical thing is to give mentally ill people the right to take such a life-changing decision like a sex operation, which unsurprisingly leads to an average suicide attempt rate of 41% among transgender people. Talking about a waste of government money, this is as good as it gets.

In a saner world transgender operations wouldn't be allowed, let alone funded with tax payers' money.
The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled is convincing the world he is God.
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Kung Fu

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Re: Transgender Operations!

PostMon Jan 19, 2015 3:18 pm

Artful Revealer wrote:We're really hitting rock bottom if we start to spend taxes on transgender operations while everywhere regimes are cutting back on some basic essentials, like pension funds. Firstly it strikes me as hypocritical, and like so many other social evolutions of our liberal society, to accuse transgender critics of not accepting people that are different, while those very transgender people are unable to accept what they are themselves, changing that which nature gave them. Opposing the stereotypes created by supposed social constructions while at the same time trying to become the stereotype.


We've been at rock bottom for a while now in terms of morality and common sense. However, as usual it always gets worse. They apparently think that nature or God cheated them in terms of their gender when instead they should be grateful for having functioning body parts and to be able to do all the great things that many can't, due to disabilities.

Artful Revealer wrote:Since gender identity issues are psychological, why should we try to solve it physically? If they have mental issues, they should see professional counsel like any other human without a gender identity crisis. The worst nonsensical thing is to give mentally ill people the right to take such a life-changing decision like a sex operation, which unsurprisingly leads to an average suicide attempt rate of 41% among transgender people. Talking about a waste of government money, this is as good as it gets.

In a saner world transgender operations wouldn't be allowed, let alone funded with tax payers' money.


That's a good question that, I would like to know the answer too. We have so many other problems with our healthcare system and society in general that it makes me smash my head against the wall when I hear nonsense like this.
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