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Transgender Operations!

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Loki

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Re: Transgender Operations!

PostFri Oct 24, 2014 5:48 pm

Kung Fu wrote:
Loki wrote:
I don't personally understand it, but if you experienced life the way they do you might feel differently. I've noticed you have very little empathy towards others, which is likely why we disagree on the majority of these social topics. You seem unable to or unwilling to put yourself in their shoes so you don't feel sorry for them in the slightest.

As I posted before though, gender dysmorphia is an accepted affliction. Feel free to post studies or research that have shown that there is no actual scienctific data showing there is something wrong with these people's brains/chemical makeup/etc. Perhaps there is none, I don't really know, and like I said I don't understand the whole gender identity thing very well because I've never experienced it. I can imagine it is probably fairly miserable though.

Now if it was proved that all people wanting to switch genders despite not having this disorder were claiming to have the disorder in order to have taxpayers pay for it then that would certainly be an issue, but so far I don't think that's the case unless I'm mistaken.


I have little empathy? I guess you've missed all the threads, I've made on America bombing the shit out of Eastern nations, or Jews killing off and starving off Palestinians, which in the whole grand scheme of everything there have been over a million deaths. You only see what you want to see my friend.

Psychology is not a real science. It's a pseudoscience. Now if you can show me how these chemicals in the brain that can be quantifiable measured and how it relates to transgenders wanting to become something completely else then you might have a case.


I might classify that more as sympathy, which is different than empathy.

As I'm not a scientist, and neither are you, we must rely on scientists and medical professionals to determine these things for us. So far they have classified it as an actual disorder. It's up to you to then disprove them, not up to me to prove that they are right about their conclusions. You can disbelieve them if you want, that's your choice, but until you disprove them then their conclusion stands.
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Re: Transgender Operations!

PostFri Oct 24, 2014 5:57 pm

Kung Fu wrote:http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/b-c-government-now-pays-for-surgery-changing-women-to-men-1.105676

This is why I advocate that some people should just be given lethal injections.

The article talks about how British Columbia, a province within Canada pays for operations of women wanting to become men.

Thoughts?


what im going to say might shock some people... but no, i dont think we should be paying for gender reassignment surgeries UNLESS the person has an actual chromosomal anomaly. as in born with the wrong XX or XY to fit their actual bodies (which does happen rarely) or like a hermaphrodite or something.

i got my nose done years ago, because it made me feel like shit about myself. i had to pay for that myself despite it being a body issue that gave me great discomfort. had i had a deviated septum insurance would have covered it, but i didnt. same goes with weight loss surgeries, if the persons weight poses a medical risk then its covered, if not than its not and that person has to pay for it themselves no matter how bad they feel about being fat.

there is nothing stopping someone who wants to be the opposite gender from dressing and acting in that manner, there is nothing stopping them from saving their money and paying for the surgery themselves if they just HAVE to actually have the breasts and/or penis to match.

with that said calling for euthanasia is ridiculous, inflammatory and extremist. that would be the definition of baiting - as are many other threads that you post. and tbh i cant even believe this is your real personality sometimes, i think a lot of it is an exaggerated act to cause a reaction, and that would be trolling. take it for what it is. i really dont care.

and loki - even after they get the surgery they need a lifetime of medication management and therapy, so paying for the surgery wouldnt be saving money at all. it would be ensuring a lifetime of expensive medical bills instead. however, i do not think medical insurance works exactly how its being portrayed here. group medical plans are not actually impacted by the medical needs of a small subset of insured, the price wouldnt change if these things were excluded. that is how the compute medical costs by spreading it over large groups to absorb risks.. the high risks are offset by the low risks in a large pool.
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Re: Transgender Operations!

PostFri Oct 24, 2014 6:07 pm

Loki wrote:As I'm not a scientist, and neither are you, we must rely on scientists and medical professionals to determine these things for us. So far they have classified it as an actual disorder. It's up to you to then disprove them, not up to me to prove that they are right about their conclusions. You can disbelieve them if you want, that's your choice, but until you disprove them then their conclusion stands.


Again, psychology is a pseudoscience. It's not a real science unlike neurology, biology, and etc. What psychologists say can't be empirically analyzed and or quantifiably be measured. Psychology goes against the very definition of testing a scientific theory and therefore doesn't count as a legit scientific theory.
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Re: Transgender Operations!

PostFri Oct 24, 2014 6:08 pm

Very fair assessment Jess. As I said I think it should only be covered if they are diagnosed with something like gender dysmorphia, not just because they'd rather be the opposite gender. But as I don't know enough about it I wouldn't even begin to know how to tell if someone actually has that issue or if they are making it up and whatnot.

Good point about the aftercare of such a surgery, I honestly have no clue how any of that sort of stuff would work as I've never even had a basic surgery before. It does make sense that they would for sure have to take pills to keep the right hormones repressed and the new hormones activated though, didn't think about that for some reason.
This message brought to you by My Brain, courtesy of My Fingers.

"We all are to some extent [agnostic]... So yes, I'm an 'agnostic', in as much as I don't actually know what happens when I die. I choose to operate under the assumption that God does not exist. I have no need for God in my life, the concept of a 'God' feels incredibly made up to me. It is not requisite for my every day living. For some people it is. They are 'theistic agnostics,' I am an 'atheistic agnostic.'" - Cara Santa Maria
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Re: Transgender Operations!

PostFri Oct 24, 2014 6:14 pm

Kung Fu wrote:
Loki wrote:As I'm not a scientist, and neither are you, we must rely on scientists and medical professionals to determine these things for us. So far they have classified it as an actual disorder. It's up to you to then disprove them, not up to me to prove that they are right about their conclusions. You can disbelieve them if you want, that's your choice, but until you disprove them then their conclusion stands.


Again, psychology is a pseudoscience. It's not a real science unlike neurology, biology, and etc. What psychologists say can't be empirically analyzed and or quantifiably be measured. Psychology goes against the very definition of testing a scientific theory and therefore doesn't count as a legit scientific theory.


This doesn't change the fact that gender dysmorphia is a recognized disorder. Get to work on changing that I suppose, but the medical community recognizes currently so if it's clear to a physician that someone is being affected by this and they are diagnosed with it then like other medical issues that affect your quality of life it can be covered by insurance.
This message brought to you by My Brain, courtesy of My Fingers.

"We all are to some extent [agnostic]... So yes, I'm an 'agnostic', in as much as I don't actually know what happens when I die. I choose to operate under the assumption that God does not exist. I have no need for God in my life, the concept of a 'God' feels incredibly made up to me. It is not requisite for my every day living. For some people it is. They are 'theistic agnostics,' I am an 'atheistic agnostic.'" - Cara Santa Maria
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Re: Transgender Operations!

PostFri Oct 24, 2014 6:17 pm

Loki wrote:Very fair assessment Jess. As I said I think it should only be covered if they are diagnosed with something like gender dysmorphia, not just because they'd rather be the opposite gender. But as I don't know enough about it I wouldn't even begin to know how to tell if someone actually has that issue or if they are making it up and whatnot.

Good point about the aftercare of such a surgery, I honestly have no clue how any of that sort of stuff would work as I've never even had a basic surgery before. It does make sense that they would for sure have to take pills to keep the right hormones repressed and the new hormones activated though, didn't think about that for some reason.


What does gender dysmorphia look like?

How can we tell they're really a man in a woman's body and or vice versa?
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Re: Transgender Operations!

PostFri Oct 24, 2014 6:19 pm

Kung Fu wrote:
Loki wrote:As I'm not a scientist, and neither are you, we must rely on scientists and medical professionals to determine these things for us. So far they have classified it as an actual disorder. It's up to you to then disprove them, not up to me to prove that they are right about their conclusions. You can disbelieve them if you want, that's your choice, but until you disprove them then their conclusion stands.


Again, psychology is a pseudoscience. It's not a real science unlike neurology, biology, and etc. What psychologists say can't be empirically analyzed and or quantifiably be measured. Psychology goes against the very definition of testing a scientific theory and therefore doesn't count as a legit scientific theory.


that was true maybe 50 years ago, maybe even 25 years ago.. but the actually have very accurate brain imaging technology now that can show the differences in brain structure and the different brain activity of people with mental illnesses and how that deviates from the norm. they also can test hormone levels which contribute to mental illness.

are these things used in general practice? hardly ever. but they do exist and give backing to psychiatry as a SCIENCE. a real science. even if the theory is often seperated from the practice.


like i said, blood tests can show chromosomal anomolies, other than that you cant. which is why i limited my exception.
Scratch most feminists and underneath there is a woman who longs to be a sex object. The difference is that is not all she wants to be. ~Betty Rollin

"I don't really aspire to being rational. I'm more attracted to the irrational," she says. "There's no such thing as total rationality. That's something I've realized lately." - Scarlet Johansson
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Re: Transgender Operations!

PostFri Oct 24, 2014 6:20 pm

Kung Fu wrote:
Loki wrote:Very fair assessment Jess. As I said I think it should only be covered if they are diagnosed with something like gender dysmorphia, not just because they'd rather be the opposite gender. But as I don't know enough about it I wouldn't even begin to know how to tell if someone actually has that issue or if they are making it up and whatnot.

Good point about the aftercare of such a surgery, I honestly have no clue how any of that sort of stuff would work as I've never even had a basic surgery before. It does make sense that they would for sure have to take pills to keep the right hormones repressed and the new hormones activated though, didn't think about that for some reason.


What does gender dysmorphia look like?

How can we tell they're really a man in a woman's body and or vice versa?


Your argument is that all of psychology/psychiatry should be thrown out and not covered by insurance then?
This message brought to you by My Brain, courtesy of My Fingers.

"We all are to some extent [agnostic]... So yes, I'm an 'agnostic', in as much as I don't actually know what happens when I die. I choose to operate under the assumption that God does not exist. I have no need for God in my life, the concept of a 'God' feels incredibly made up to me. It is not requisite for my every day living. For some people it is. They are 'theistic agnostics,' I am an 'atheistic agnostic.'" - Cara Santa Maria
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Re: Transgender Operations!

PostFri Oct 24, 2014 6:29 pm

Shakes my head...

Most trans people pay for their own surgery, their own hormones and their own therapy. From working.

And not always all three, because not everyone's experiences are the same.

Here's some food for thought:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_ ... d_theories
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Re: Transgender Operations!

PostFri Oct 24, 2014 6:32 pm

Loki wrote:Your argument is that all of psychology/psychiatry should be thrown out and not covered by insurance then?


The only thing psychology is good at is being a social science. I'm not saying it should be thrown out or anything but I am saying is that you can't use it with the transgender situation we have going on here seeing as a brain scan won't show any anomalies or anything of that sort. All a brain scan will show is that they're a perfectly functioning human being with a perfectly functioning brain.

If I felt I needed to be a bigger more muscular person, should taxpayers pay for my steroids because some psychologist diagnosed me with Body Dysmorphic Disorder?
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