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Transgender Operations!

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Kung Fu

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Re: Transgender Operations!

PostFri Oct 24, 2014 6:33 pm

Back In Anger wrote:Shakes my head...

Most trans people pay for their own surgery, their own hormones and their own therapy. From working.

And not always all three, because not everyone's experiences are the same.

Here's some food for thought:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_ ... d_theories


You sure you're not "HIGH AF RIGHT NOW"?
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justjess

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Re: Transgender Operations!

PostFri Oct 24, 2014 6:35 pm

Kung Fu wrote:
Loki wrote:Your argument is that all of psychology/psychiatry should be thrown out and not covered by insurance then?


The only thing psychology is good at is being a social science. I'm not saying it should be thrown out or anything but I am saying is that you can't use it with the transgender situation we have going on here seeing as a brain scan won't show any anomalies or anything of that sort. All a brain scan will show is that they're a perfectly functioning human being with a perfectly functioning brain.

If I felt I needed to be a bigger more muscular person, should taxpayers pay for my steroids because some psychologist diagnosed me with Body Dysmorphic Disorder?



that was true maybe 50 years ago, maybe even 25 years ago.. but the actually have very accurate brain imaging technology now that can show the differences in brain structure and the different brain activity of people with mental illnesses and how that deviates from the norm. they also can test hormone levels which contribute to mental illness.

they can also test hormones and chemicals through blood.. which wouldn't usually fall into psychiatrys purview but it would under a comprehensive medical approach.
Scratch most feminists and underneath there is a woman who longs to be a sex object. The difference is that is not all she wants to be. ~Betty Rollin

"I don't really aspire to being rational. I'm more attracted to the irrational," she says. "There's no such thing as total rationality. That's something I've realized lately." - Scarlet Johansson
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justjess

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Re: Transgender Operations!

PostFri Oct 24, 2014 6:37 pm

Genetics

The androgen receptor (AR), also known as NR3C4, is activated by the binding of testosterone or dihydrotestosterone, where it plays a critical role in the forming of primary and secondary male sex characteristics. Hare et al. found that male-to-female transsexuals were found to have longer repetitions of the gene, which reduced its effectiveness at binding testosterone.[18]

A variant genotype for a gene called CYP17, which acts on the sex hormones pregnenolone and progesterone, has been found to be linked to female-to-male transsexualism but not MTF transsexualism. Most notably, the FTM subjects not only had the variant genotype more frequently, but had an allele distribution equivalent to male controls, unlike the female controls. The paper concluded that the loss of a female-specific CYP17 T -34C allele distribution pattern is associated with FtM transsexualism.[19]
Brain structure

In a first-of-its-kind study, Zhou et al. (1995) found that in a region of the brain called the bed nucleus of the stria terminalis (BSTc), a region known for sex and anxiety responses, MTF transsexuals have a female-normal size while FTM transsexuals have a male-normal size. While the transsexuals studied had taken hormones, this was accounted for by including non-transsexual male and female controls who, for a variety of medical reasons, had experienced hormone reversal. The controls still retained sizes typical for their gender. No relationship to sexual orientation was found.[20]

In a follow-up study, Kruijver et al. (2000) looked at the number of neurons in BSTc instead of volumes. They found the same results as Zhou et al. (1995), but with even more dramatic differences. One MTF subject who had never gone on hormones was also included, and who matched up with the female neuron counts nonetheless.[21]

In 2002, a follow-up study by Chung et al. found that significant sexual dimorphism (variation between sexes) in BSTc did not become established until adulthood. Chung et al. theorized that either changes in fetal hormone levels produce changes in BSTc synaptic density, neuronal activity, or neurochemical content which later lead to size and neuron count changes in BSTc, or that the size of BSTc is affected by the failure to generate a gender identity consistent with one's anatomic sex.[22]

In a review of the evidence in 2006, Gooren confirms the earlier research as supporting the concept that transsexualism is a sexual differentiation disorder of the sex dimorphic brain.[23] Dick Swaab (2004) concurs.[24]

In 2008, a new region with properties similar to that of BSTc in regards to transsexualism was found by Garcia-Falgueras and Swaab: the interstitial nucleus of the anterior hypothalamus (INAH3), part of the hypothalamic uncinate nucleus. The same method of controlling for hormone usage was used as in Zhou et al. (1995) and Kruijver et al. (2000). The differences were even more pronounced than with BSTc; control males averaged 1.9 times the volume and 2.3 times the neurons as control females, yet once again, regardless of hormone exposure, MTF transsexuals lay within the female range and the FTM transsexual within the male range.[25]

While the resolution of MRI tomographs in general can be fine enough, independent nuclei are not visible due to lack of contrast between different neurological tissue types. Therefore such images do not show detailed structures such as BSTc and INAH3, and studies on BSTC were done by bisecting brains postmortem.

However, MRI does much more easily allow the study of larger brain structures. In Luders et al. (2009), 24 MTF transsexuals not-yet treated with cross-sex hormones were studied via MRI. While regional gray matter concentrations were more similar to men than women, there was a significantly larger volume of gray matter in the right putamen compared to men. As with many earlier studies, they concluded that transsexualism is associated with a distinct cerebral pattern.[26]

An additional feature was studied in a group of FTM transsexuals who had not yet received cross-sex hormones: fractional anisotropy values for white matter in the medial and posterior parts of the right superior longitudinal fasciculus (SLF), the forceps minor, and the corticospinal tract. Rametti et al. (2010) discovered that, "Compared to control females, FtM showed higher FA values in posterior part of the right SLF, the forceps minor and corticospinal tract. Compared to control males, FtM showed only lower FA values in the corticospinal tract."[27]

Hulshoff Pol et al. (2006), studied the gross brain volume of subjects undergoing hormone treatment. They discovered that whole brain volume for subjects changes toward the size of the opposite reproductive sex during hormone treatment. The conclusion of the study was, "The findings suggest that, throughout life, gonadal hormones remain essential for maintaining aspects of sex-specific differences in the human brain."[28]


they can test for all of the above..
Scratch most feminists and underneath there is a woman who longs to be a sex object. The difference is that is not all she wants to be. ~Betty Rollin

"I don't really aspire to being rational. I'm more attracted to the irrational," she says. "There's no such thing as total rationality. That's something I've realized lately." - Scarlet Johansson
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Loki

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Re: Transgender Operations!

PostFri Oct 24, 2014 6:40 pm

Kung Fu wrote:
Loki wrote:Your argument is that all of psychology/psychiatry should be thrown out and not covered by insurance then?


The only thing psychology is good at is being a social science. I'm not saying it should be thrown out or anything but I am saying is that you can't use it with the transgender situation we have going on here seeing as a brain scan won't show any anomalies or anything of that sort. All a brain scan will show is that they're a perfectly functioning human being with a perfectly functioning brain.

If I felt I needed to be a bigger more muscular person, should taxpayers pay for my steroids because some psychologist diagnosed me with Body Dysmorphic Disorder?


Well steroids are illegal, so no. But if your inability to change your body was giving you severe mental health issues like depression, suicidal tendencies, etc. then I'd be fine with insurance covering your therapy or possibly even surgery for muscle implants. The issue with body dysmorphic disorder though is that when you truly have it you literally can't see your body the way others see it, so surgery probably wouldn't be prescribed for it and you would jus tneed constant therapy or maybe meds.
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Back In Anger

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Re: Transgender Operations!

PostFri Oct 24, 2014 6:46 pm

Kung Fu wrote:
Loki wrote:Your argument is that all of psychology/psychiatry should be thrown out and not covered by insurance then?


The only thing psychology is good at is being a social science. I'm not saying it should be thrown out or anything but I am saying is that you can't use it with the transgender situation we have going on here seeing as a brain scan won't show any anomalies or anything of that sort. All a brain scan will show is that they're a perfectly functioning human being with a perfectly functioning brain.

If I felt I needed to be a bigger more muscular person, should taxpayers pay for my steroids because some psychologist diagnosed me with Body Dysmorphic Disorder?


To be frank mate I think taxes are going on far worse things (wars, politicians' gardens) than healthcare, which helps to improve people's quality of life.
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Re: Transgender Operations!

PostFri Oct 24, 2014 6:48 pm

Loki wrote:Well steroids are illegal, so no. But if your inability to change your body was giving you severe mental health issues like depression, suicidal tendencies, etc. then I'd be fine with insurance covering your therapy or possibly even surgery for muscle implants. The issue with body dysmorphic disorder though is that when you truly have it you literally can't see your body the way others see it, so surgery probably wouldn't be prescribed for it and you would jus tneed constant therapy or maybe meds.


Steroids are not illegal if prescribed by a doctor. If you truly feel that way then they should take a poll and the people that support things like this then they should have to pay for it.
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Re: Transgender Operations!

PostFri Oct 24, 2014 6:49 pm

do you understand how health insurance works?
Scratch most feminists and underneath there is a woman who longs to be a sex object. The difference is that is not all she wants to be. ~Betty Rollin

"I don't really aspire to being rational. I'm more attracted to the irrational," she says. "There's no such thing as total rationality. That's something I've realized lately." - Scarlet Johansson
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Kung Fu

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Re: Transgender Operations!

PostFri Oct 24, 2014 6:53 pm

Back In Anger wrote:To be frank mate I think taxes are going on far worse things (wars, politicians' gardens) than healthcare, which helps to improve people's quality of life.


I agree with you, it is and having to pay for changing a man to a woman is one of them.
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Re: Transgender Operations!

PostFri Oct 24, 2014 6:53 pm

justjess wrote:do you understand how health insurance works?


This is Canada, I'm talking about.
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Re: Transgender Operations!

PostFri Oct 24, 2014 6:56 pm

Kung Fu wrote:
Loki wrote:Well steroids are illegal, so no. But if your inability to change your body was giving you severe mental health issues like depression, suicidal tendencies, etc. then I'd be fine with insurance covering your therapy or possibly even surgery for muscle implants. The issue with body dysmorphic disorder though is that when you truly have it you literally can't see your body the way others see it, so surgery probably wouldn't be prescribed for it and you would jus tneed constant therapy or maybe meds.


Steroids are not illegal if prescribed by a doctor. If you truly feel that way then they should take a poll and the people that support things like this then they should have to pay for it.


Lol, I wish taxes worked this way. Militaries would cease to exist in large capacities and healthcare, road care, schools, and fire departments would get most of the tax money because those are things people actually want.
This message brought to you by My Brain, courtesy of My Fingers.

"We all are to some extent [agnostic]... So yes, I'm an 'agnostic', in as much as I don't actually know what happens when I die. I choose to operate under the assumption that God does not exist. I have no need for God in my life, the concept of a 'God' feels incredibly made up to me. It is not requisite for my every day living. For some people it is. They are 'theistic agnostics,' I am an 'atheistic agnostic.'" - Cara Santa Maria
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