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Erdogan - Women Not Equal To Men

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Loki

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Re: Erdogan - Women Not Equal To Men

PostTue Nov 25, 2014 1:42 pm

Artful Revealer wrote:
justjess wrote:i posted the articles so loki could see what he actually said, since he cant watch videos.

do u have nothing to say about his actual statements?

since he didnt mention trades at all and actually just said women should be mothers and not work at all?

If his actual statements are so important, where exactly did he mention women shouldn't work at all?


"Our religion [Islam] has defined a position for women: motherhood," he said.


I mean it's pretty clear what he means, but you're right he doesn't explicity say women shouldn't work. But on Jess' point, he doesn't mention trade work specifically at all.

For all we can tell by his comments, he believes women in offices can't work as efficiently as men, or women in hospitals, or female lawyers. In actuality women can often be much more analytical and dilligent in their work so they would likely be more efficient at those jobs than men. I don't think men should make less starting pay at those sorts of jobs than women though. Unfortunately most women still make less money even if they are better at the job than men of their equivalent position are.

I've got no issue with people being rewarded for hard work or their capabilities at a job, so if one person, man or woman, is better at a job I think they should get larger raises than their peers and be at the top of the line for promotions within the company. This shoudln't have anything to do with their gender and everything to do with their productivity and capabilities when it comes to that job. This has improved, I like to think, but it's still nowhere near equal.

I also think men should be able to be stay at home dads when they have kids if that is what works best for their family and that shouldn't be looked down on at all.

There were times int he recent past when a woman raising the kids and a man working was ideal for most families and it made sense. Now it can still work, but it's no longer necessary and we have moved past it. If people would prefer not to take that route I think that's fine and the people stuck in the past trying to prevent it because it threatens them or confuses them should be opposed strongly.
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Re: Erdogan - Women Not Equal To Men

PostTue Nov 25, 2014 2:13 pm

Society has become so dysfunctional no wonder everyone is suffering. Woman have forgotten what it means to be a mother. Raising a healthy and successful child starts at home and if they don't have a mother well then there not at a good start. Every kid today is raised by some kind of backwater daycare. If women weren't so desperate to have a penis of their own during the late 50s and early 60s perhaps a single income would still be enough to support a family, our kids would actually be growing to be healthy and smart individuals, and society as a whole functioning a lot better than it's functioning today.

The funny part is the jokes on women. Women nowadays are so bitter especially later in life that they feel that since their lives end up being so miserable even though they're financially secure that everyone else should be just as miserable.
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Re: Erdogan - Women Not Equal To Men

PostTue Nov 25, 2014 3:10 pm

seriously where do u come up with this shit?

i know plenty of older non bitter women. some of them work, some of them dont.

i honestly cant believe you arent a caricature sometimes..

artful - the intent is clear

"Our religion [Islam] has defined a position for women: motherhood," he said.

He then went on to blast feminists, accusing them of not understanding their role in society.

"Some people can understand this, while others can't," he said. "You cannot explain this to feminists because they don't accept the concept of motherhood."

Erdogan tried using the Quran to advance his point, saying, "Paradise lies at the feet of mothers," which ended up just turning into an awkward reflection on the role of his mother in his own family.
Scratch most feminists and underneath there is a woman who longs to be a sex object. The difference is that is not all she wants to be. ~Betty Rollin

"I don't really aspire to being rational. I'm more attracted to the irrational," she says. "There's no such thing as total rationality. That's something I've realized lately." - Scarlet Johansson
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Re: Erdogan - Women Not Equal To Men

PostTue Nov 25, 2014 3:30 pm

Loki wrote:There were times int he recent past when a woman raising the kids and a man working was ideal for most families and it made sense. Now it can still work, but it's no longer necessary and we have moved past it. If people would prefer not to take that route I think that's fine and the people stuck in the past trying to prevent it because it threatens them or confuses them should be opposed strongly.


It's not that we've moved past it but because if they want a home and kids they both have to work in order to pay the bills. This wouldn't have happened if women weren't so damn gullible in the 50s and 60s. It has nothing to do with being confused or threatened.
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Re: Erdogan - Women Not Equal To Men

PostTue Nov 25, 2014 3:44 pm

Kung Fu wrote:
Loki wrote:There were times int he recent past when a woman raising the kids and a man working was ideal for most families and it made sense. Now it can still work, but it's no longer necessary and we have moved past it. If people would prefer not to take that route I think that's fine and the people stuck in the past trying to prevent it because it threatens them or confuses them should be opposed strongly.


It's not that we've moved past it but because if they want a home and kids they both have to work in order to pay the bills. This wouldn't have happened if women weren't so damn gullible in the 50s and 60s. It has nothing to do with being confused or threatened.


You could be somewhat right about women kind of being fed an idea and latching onto it, though that is assuming no women ever had any interest in joining the work force and the only reason they decided to was because an outside force put the idea in their heads. For some maybe, but not for all. Before the creation of mechanical farming equipment women worked just as hard as men and pulled their weight in the fields. They could cut crops and collect produce even while pregnant, up until like the last trimester or something. It was labor intensive but not dangerous to the baby msot of the time. But with the invention of plows and tractors and the like women were moved into the house for the most part because using that equipment while pregnant led to lots of miscarriages.

My point is that it's not like in the 50s and 60s it became the first time that women entered the work force. Throughout history women have been working separately from men and sometimes alongside men while also doing a lot of the family raising. The itch for them to want to work has likely always been there, just like it is for men. Even though many people hate their jobs, once they retire they miss it, or they have to find hobbies and distractions to keep them busy because they feel so useless and bored. Something in us is programmed to want to work, and it's the same in women, and to varying degrees in everybody I'm sure. So I don't think it was likely that women didn't on some level have an urge to work before the 50s, it's jsut that society had shifted to tell them they shouldn't work and for a long time msot men and women believed that and it influenced them. Now there is a new shift.

The reason I say people who want women back in the home because they are confused or threatened is because that is usually the case for these extreme conservatives. They don't know how to handle shifts in society so they want everything to go back the way it was. But eventually they die and we move on.

That said, I do think it is healthy and helpful for children to have a parent who is raising them rather than a daycare most of the day, but it doesn't necessarily have to be their mom. Unfortunately you're right an dmost households need two incomes to make any even slightly comfortable living for themselves, so it's tough to manage that. But I'd say that burden rests more firmly on the lecherous beast that is Capitalism's shoulders than just women being gullible.
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Re: Erdogan - Women Not Equal To Men

PostTue Nov 25, 2014 3:50 pm

if financial security was independant of work then maybe youd have less women who want to work. you cant talk about the work issue without recognizing that before women were in the official workforce they had no financial clout of their own and where therefore often trapped in violent unhappy marriages, or left destitute if their husband left them or died an untimely death. you expect women to take on that very real risk with no care for their well being?

if you honestly gave a fuck about women staying home to raise their children then you would be fighting for a guranteed maternal salary that would enable women to stay home and do that. you are not, so i can only assume that you pay nothing more than lip service to your concerns for the "family"
Scratch most feminists and underneath there is a woman who longs to be a sex object. The difference is that is not all she wants to be. ~Betty Rollin

"I don't really aspire to being rational. I'm more attracted to the irrational," she says. "There's no such thing as total rationality. That's something I've realized lately." - Scarlet Johansson
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Re: Erdogan - Women Not Equal To Men

PostTue Nov 25, 2014 4:01 pm

justjess wrote:if financial security was independant of work then maybe youd have less women who want to work. you cant talk about the work issue without recognizing that before women were in the official workforce they had no financial clout of their own and where therefore often trapped in violent unhappy marriages, or left destitute if their husband left them or died an untimely death. you expect women to take on that very real risk with no care for their well being?

if you honestly gave a fuck about women staying home to raise their children then you would be fighting for a guranteed maternal salary that would enable women to stay home and do that. you are not, so i can only assume that you pay nothing more than lip service to your concerns for the "family"


That would be pretty wild, being employed by the State or Federal Government to be a mother and paid an annual salary of like 30k. Holy shit. Then we'd have dads fighting for their ability to be paid to be stay at home dads haha.

I know that some women will open an in-house daycare so they do get paid to stay at home with their kid as well as a bunch of other people's kids. It solves the problem for them but not for the other women bringing their kids over there I guess.
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"We all are to some extent [agnostic]... So yes, I'm an 'agnostic', in as much as I don't actually know what happens when I die. I choose to operate under the assumption that God does not exist. I have no need for God in my life, the concept of a 'God' feels incredibly made up to me. It is not requisite for my every day living. For some people it is. They are 'theistic agnostics,' I am an 'atheistic agnostic.'" - Cara Santa Maria
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Re: Erdogan - Women Not Equal To Men

PostTue Nov 25, 2014 4:16 pm

there have been calls - not from feminists even - for a universal salary for all citizens to divorce basic needs from work. especially in an economy that seems unable or unwilling to provide living wage emplyment for the vast majority of citizens.

but even so, you are kinda missing the point. women didnt want to work cuz we were so bored and fed up with being moms. we wanted to work so that we would have some level of security and ability to care for ourselves when the men in our lives failed to do so, or used their position as financial provider to violate us in other ways - infedelity, abuse.

how many in home daycares do you think are needed? if every woman opened one, there would be no need for any
Scratch most feminists and underneath there is a woman who longs to be a sex object. The difference is that is not all she wants to be. ~Betty Rollin

"I don't really aspire to being rational. I'm more attracted to the irrational," she says. "There's no such thing as total rationality. That's something I've realized lately." - Scarlet Johansson
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Re: Erdogan - Women Not Equal To Men

PostTue Nov 25, 2014 4:23 pm

Yeah, no I get it. I didn't realize I said anything to show that I didn't get it. Home daycare is just an option for some who really feel they need to be at home with their children.
This message brought to you by My Brain, courtesy of My Fingers.

"We all are to some extent [agnostic]... So yes, I'm an 'agnostic', in as much as I don't actually know what happens when I die. I choose to operate under the assumption that God does not exist. I have no need for God in my life, the concept of a 'God' feels incredibly made up to me. It is not requisite for my every day living. For some people it is. They are 'theistic agnostics,' I am an 'atheistic agnostic.'" - Cara Santa Maria
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Re: Erdogan - Women Not Equal To Men

PostWed Nov 26, 2014 5:05 pm

justjess wrote:i
if you honestly gave a fuck about women staying home to raise their children then you would be fighting for a guranteed maternal salary that would enable women to stay home and do that. you are not, so i can only assume that you pay nothing more than lip service to your concerns for the "family"


You're funny. Women practically have that already in the form of spousal and child support. All of the Family Court is their domain. This would be fine by me if women weren't allow to work but that isn't the case now is it? We have equal rights apparently and yet men are still getting shafted into paying astronomical amounts of child service and spousal support. Congratulations to you feminists because now they got their cake and get to eat it as well. But that doesn't mean I will stop fighting against such an illogical little fantasy you feminists have running.
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