MGTOW: Stop falling in love cause love doesn't exist

you know i think this same way. my sister just recently married one of the guys from her youth who was trying to get with her. when she was younger she did not want him. now that she's just past her mid 30s all of sudden she says how much she loves him and how she is going to be a great wife to him. im just like really? it took you i dont know how many guys for you to realize that you love someone that always seem to have felt that way about you?

I'm sorry to say but your sisters case is the norm within Western society. They go through a bunch of men and then when it's time to settle down they find a mate that they would have never slept with in their earlier years. They do this out of necessity. They need a provider because no good looking well accomplished man will want her due to her history. Often these women that settle down have affairs on the side because they just can't deal with being with someone they really don't love, hence why the divorce rates are so high.

i was trying to get with this girl recently i fell in love with her but she believed that love does not exist. she was like fuck love. now im thinking wtf do you mean fuck love? why would i want to be in a relationship with you if you dont love me?

She just doesn't want you and that's why she says that. She believes she can do better than you. Once she meets the man that meets her standards you'll see how fast she believes in love. I've seen this countless times.

i want to be with someone like really bad now but it seems all women are the same. they dont seem to care about me as a person at all. i think i may have to just settle for one of these women if i dont want to die an old lonely man.

Finding a good woman within North America is very difficult especially one that hasn't been brainwashed by Popular Culture. They are around but tough to find. If you can try to find a virgin, which in today's world is hard but not impossible. Statistics show that women with the least amount of sexual partners before marriage have the lowest chances of ending divorced, which makes sense.

Good luck on your journey.

Love is a lie, they always betray you

Have you heard bits of the opening story of 1001 Arabian nights? it's hilarious, and a good cautionary tale for any self-espoused MGTOW. It also shows this ain't a western thing, it's how it's always been man...

Never trust in women; nor rely upon their vows;
For their pleasure and displeasure depend upon their passions.
They offer a false affection; for perfidy lurks within their clothing.
By the tale of Yusuf be admonished, and guard against their stratagems.
Dost thou not consider that Iblis ejected Adam by means of woman?
And another poet says:—
Abstain from censure; for it will strengthen the censured, and increase desire into violent passion.
If I suffer such passion, my case is but the same that as of many a man before me:
For greatly indeed to be wondered at is he who hath kept himself safe from women’s artifice.

http://www.bartleby.com/16/1002.html

In fact middle-eastern mythology has a plethora of tales warning about this (look at Ishtar's myths).

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I find it really odd that someone has posted about MGTOW when I recently discovered these MGTOW videos. The timing is almost too close. I actually wanted to post about it but didn't have the time. I see that VC forums are down, anyone care to send me a link to that discussion? If one has been started on it already.

To add to this thread, I've gotten very familiar with MGTOW from numerous authors on Youtube.

SandMan
MGTOW 101
TurdFliningMonkey
MayorOfMGTOWN
Howard Dare
Angry MGTOW
MGTOW Is Freedom

There's a few more I may have left out.

My thoughts on MGTOW are mixed. I understand where many of the MGTOW (Men Going Their Own Way) are coming from. Some of these men have experienced mild to horrendous experiences dealing with women. Whether it be women using men for their resources to divorce, which falls in line for using men of their resources. In most cases women are given half of what the husband owns, alimony, and if children are involved, there's child support. Thanks to feminism from public events to institutions like Universities, women have ruined men's lives for false rape allegations. Even when men were found not guilty, the man's reputations is still destroyed, because there are still people who believe he's a rapist. I do believe a man's entire business was ruined because of a false rape accusation. And another where I believe a mother of a son who was accused of being a rapist, killed herself. Of course the son was found innocent but the mother died, thinking her son was a rapist. Then there's mattress girl. I'm sure most of you have at least heard of it but I won't get into that.

Now we can sit here and talk about how horrible feminism is and how it has further destroyed women, especially in the west. I think it'd be best to understand what MGTOW is truly all about. From my months into looking from MGTOW points of view, men are simply opting out of the system. A system that no longer values men. In most western cultures, Men are hated for portraying masculinity, while women are praised for portraying masculinity. Men can no longer be men and even with all the knowledge I have learned from MGTOW, I still would like to be married one day. Most MGTOW who fall into the Red Pill category, refuse to get married,ever. Mainly because of what I've mentioned earlier. According to most statistics, women instigate 70% percent of all divorces and sadly enough, a lot of men commit suicide after losing mostly everything in a divorce. They lose their finances, their home, their wife, and most of the time, their children. Because of this, men do not find benefit in marriage because the risk are too great. With No Fault Divorce, women have the power in the marriage. It's terrifying really because the women can simply divorce the husband and take everything form him.

With men who are getting into relationships with women, those who aren't married yet but may have a serious relationship that has been going on for years, men are being used and drained of their wealth. Sadly the women in western culture, seemed to have gained a sense of entitlement. That no matter how they act or how they treat men in their lives, they deserve to be treated like princesses. Now, women are to be treated with respect, even when women don't want to be treated in such a manner, the men no longer believe to give women respect just because they are women. In MGTOW's eyes, they need to earn it.

I believe social media has harmed women in such ways that have killed their reservation to being with a single man. There was an article or study somewhere, I have to find it, where a man's inbox on many social media sites like Facebook and Tinder, are compared to a woman's inbox. The women, had tons and tons of messages from many men, while the men mostly have not gotten a message in months.

I'm gonna have to come back later and finish this, I'm getting pretty tired. I'll try to come back on here tomorrow to discuss this further. Hope everyone has been doing well.

The demasculinization you speak of saddens me. It seems today's idea of a rugged bad boy is Justin Bieber.

I don't really have much else to add to the discussion. Most points have been covered and I don't believe in the current wave of feminism. It made sense when women had to fight for their rights, but there's no longer a need for that in western culture since the first-wave was successful. (Unless they decided to fight for us females to not have to pay for feminine hygiene products, or at least lower the prices. I'd support that cause.) I don't want the manliest heartthrobsof my daughters generation to be some puffpuff that makes Bieber look like James Dean. But all of these things discussed tie into Their Agendas, and looking at the teenagers I see downtown, it's working. Girls looking like Miley, guys dressed like they raided their sisters closet, and then there's the ones where I can't figure it out and I assume they can't either cuz they all look like Hanson did in the late 90s...except these kids have oobs. Possibly moobs. Possibly bound breasts. Idk and I wouldn't care if it wasn't about 90% of them falling into those 3 descrptions. (It's mainly all white kids, too. But it could just be the area I live in.)

I think in the porn thread here I touched on the fake-rape fear being a factor in millennials porn addictions. Girls pulling that shit should seriously be charged for ruining an innocent man's life. It's getting to the point where guys should get it on video when a prospective partner gives consent. "She said yes and, to my knowledge, she is sober."

I can't blame guys for giving up. If I was a guy, I probably would too.

Although, from my perspective, the general prospects for women my age (30s) don't seem to be very promising, either. Most of the good guys are hiding or taken, or are hiding something. The rest are often arrogant douches who bathe in cologne and think that he's God's gift to women. You can tell by their posture they only want to sample the goods.

I guess it's not just men giving up, but women too. We've become a very "Whats in it for me?" society. It's very sad.

Love does still exist, though. In many forms. You just have to be willing to open yourself up to it.

Author Kay Hymowitz had a live chat with WallStreet Journal readers about this same issue after her widely read article (Where have the good men gone), sadly now, you have to subscribe to be able to read it. But everything mentioned here is the same that was mentioned by the readers. One unforgettable comment for me was from a guy who had been married since the age of 22. He stated that the pool of marriageable men shrinks as the years go by. And since many girls between 20-30 (what David Brooks of NYT calls the Odyssey years) want to focus on career and have fun, when they get to 29 or 30, all the good men have been taken and are left with beta -males. Thus settle down for just that after 'sleeping with half the town'- his words. Its a really difficult position to choose between family and a career in that decade (19-29), so one has to make a decision wisely and prioritize. I have to say though that it is a subject that greatly interests me. I believe it is by design to break down and frustrate the male using numerous legislations. Throw in the economic situation. A man's identity is tied to work. Without it, they feel useless and that frustration puts a strain on relationships (i almost lost a relative because of this). Studies show that when there is mass unemployment, suicide among men goes up. Men were hard hit in the last recession. But while the men fall apart, it turn women fall apart too. We are joined at the hip, there is no way out. I found and loved this quote

It is without a doubt that humanity flies with two wings, man and woman; and the breaking of one of the wings means that it comes to a stop and descends.

Just the other day, a friend made a passing comment to the effect of.....real men are all but rare, all thats left is just trousers.
For those who may not have read them, here are a few pieces i've read over the years. I think i read all the 500 comments on this first one
http://www.phillymag.com/articles/the-s ... young-men/
End of Men by the Atlantic's Hanna Rosin. She later wrote a book based on this article
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc ... en/308135/
http://slate.com/articles/double_x/doub ... cheap.html

Sexodus by Milo Yiannopoulous
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2014/12 ... f-society/

http://www.theeconomiccollapseblog.com/ ... t-to-marry

What a depressing thread.

What you don't believe exists, you will never find. So if you don't believe in love, you will never find it.

Which is why I can understand your sadness and hurt, and the desire to turn away from empty desire passing for love.

My question is, do you love yourself? Or do you believe that someone else should fill the void you feel, the emptiness and the pain? Because what you cannot find within yourself, you cannot find without. So if you don't love yourself, you will not find someone who truly loves you.

Making yourself happy is a good priority, I agree with MGTOW on that. The flaw in their line of thought in my eyes is though, that there is no such thing as love. Love does exist, but it is a precious and rare diamond only found by those who are balanced and able to give as much as they take.

Start by making yourself a priority, and you might just find that which you now miss

Indeed. You can't force a love connection that is not there, and The One True Love that many of us grew up dreaming of is just that: one and true. It could take a lifetime to find, or you could luck out and know each other from a young age. It's different for everyone.

But yeah, you need to learn to love yourself, too
Apparently before you can fully love someone else or have them love you. Idk how true that is, cuz I know some awesome people who don't seem to fully love themselves but they're in relationships with very devoted partners.

I give terrible advice, if this could be considered advice

Love does exist but we have to admit the landscape has drastically changed. Love is thought to be romance but they are 2 different things. Love is what remains when the romance fizzles out. It is to be kind, respectful, caring, sacrificial, patience, all goodness etc. I call love 'the mother of all goodness'. If you are incapable of being good to someone, then you can't love.

If you can try to find a virgin, which in today's
world is hard but not
impossible. Statistics show that women with the least amount of sexual partners before marriage have the lowest chances of ending divorced, which makes sense.

IMHO, i think it is EXTREMELY SELFISH and unfair for guys to demand for a virgin while they aren't offering the same. I hear this alot. They expect the woman to walk into the marriage with a clean plate while theirs is topped with countless sexcapades. There is evidence for delayed intimacy being beneficial for both sexes, not just women. (in all this iam excluding all those raped /molested, etc).
I found this to be great advice

But the skill of choosing a
marriage partner has often been treated as relatively
unimportant in our society and a whole lot less complex than it actually is. And herein lies the secret of why marriage has often turned out so disappointingly for so many. It’s frighteningly easy to choose the wrong person. Attraction and chemistry are easily mistaken for love, but they are far from the same thing. Being attracted to someone is immediate and largely subconscious. Staying deeply in love with someone happens gradually and requires conscious
decisions, made over and over again, for a lifetime. Too many people choose to get married based on attraction and don’t
consider, or have enough
perspective to recognize,
whether their love can endure.............But after decades of working with a few thousand well-intended and hardworking married people, I’ve become
convinced that 75 percent of
what culminates in a
disappointing marriage — or a great marriage — has far less to do with hard work and far more
to do with partner selection
based on “broad-based
compatibility.” It became clear to me that signs which were predictive of the huge
differences between eventually disappointing and ultimately great marriages were obvious
during the premarital phase of relationships.

http://huffingtonpost.com/dr-neil-clark ... 88874.html

Apparently before you can fully love someone else or have them love you. Idk how true that is,cuz I know some awesome people who don't seem to fully love themselves but they're in
relationships with very devoted partners.

That is true because the fact is you cannot give some one something that you do not have. Be it money, love, respect etc. It all begins with 'you'. If your 'person' has no account from which to draw, then there is nothing to give. As for those awesome people, remember we are all 'outsiders looking in'. The front doesn't tell the entire story.

Indeed. You can't force a love connection that is not there, and The One True Love that many of us grew up dreaming of is just that: one and true. It could take a lifetime to find, or you could luck out and know each other from a young age. It's different for everyone.

But yeah, you need to learn to love yourself, too
Apparently before you can fully love someone else or have them love you. Idk how true that is, cuz I know some awesome people who don't seem to fully love themselves but they're in relationships with very devoted partners.

I give terrible advice, if this could be considered advice

Devotion is something else than love, and can be caused by a myriad of reasons like dependence.

Do you think Trump and his wife love each other? Of course not. They are in a mutually beneficial relationship, which is something that works for lots of people too. But it's not love.