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Freedom.

From discussing the nature of the control system to space phenomena, theorize away.
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Taragaia

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Re: Freedom.

PostSat Mar 04, 2017 12:07 pm

Karlysymon wrote:Yes. Truth is we all need a 'nanny' but in moderation, so to speak. Its why people want small gov't and not big gov't.
These images aren't meant in a sense political or religious freedom but in regard to dress. The Afghan ladies with grills over their eyes feel free.

Image


I extend liberty pretty far, I am against a burqa ban for exactly that reason. Surely some burqa wearing women might be (or feel) repressed, but the majority choose it themselves (unless like in Afghanistan where it is the law) and so they should be able to do it. Is anyone harming someone else wearing a burqa? Nope, unless she is driving which I think it should be prohibited for. But as everyday wear? If that's what you want, you should be able to do it in my eyes.

I disagree with the philosophy behind it, but I will defend the freedom of those women as my own. Their choice. Just like my sidecut and purple hair are my choice.

Karlysymon wrote:This 'guy' is also exercising his freedom by permanently turning 'himself' into an androgynous alien.

Image

He plans to get rid of his genitalia, nipples and bellybutton.
http://dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4 ... ALIEN.html


I just read that the other day and was planning to write something about it, but didn't know what. Thanks for posting!

Anyhow, he kind of creeps me out on a personal level but I think he should still be free to do it. I do think he must have some issues to want to take things this far (especially concerning removing his genitalia) but if this is what he wants, then I am not going to say he should not be allowed to do it. It is his body after all, and if this makes him happy I say go for it. He doesn't harm anyone else.

I think no one should dictate what another should wear, though I do disagree with public nudity being allowed everywhere. Not because of moral reasons, but hygienic ones. You should at least cover your butt, I don't want to catch someone's STD while sitting in the bus, thank you very much. That's where personal freedom transcends into harming others :Wink:
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Karlysymon

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Re: Freedom.

PostSun Mar 05, 2017 10:28 pm

Loki wrote:whatever we want and if you don't like seeing nudity you should avert your eyes. What do you all think?

Really? If there's 10, 000 down the street and iam the only one suited up? And if i have kids?????
Taragaia wrote:I disagree with the philosophy behind it, but I will defend the freedom of those women as my own. Their choice.

Great post, from which i got this quote! I hadn't considered many aspects.....the driving, STDs. Really, its been a great thread. I will put up another contrast set in the West. A nude marathon (obviously i cannot put up a picture) and these FLDS ladies (Fundamentalist church of Latter Day Saints. A mormon spin-off). Their ankles aren't to be seen. They cover-up to the neck.


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Apparently they swim while dressed this way ( don't take my word for it)

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Loki

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Re: Freedom.

PostMon Mar 06, 2017 2:01 pm

Karlysymon wrote:
Loki wrote:whatever we want and if you don't like seeing nudity you should avert your eyes. What do you all think?

Really? If there's 10, 000 down the street and iam the only one suited up? And if i have kids?????


Yeah, your kids only care because you've told them to care. Kids don't care about nudity naturally, they are conditioned to be weird about our naked bodies. We see nonchalant nudity in several cultures across the world still and their children aren't melting because they saw a pair of breasts, a butt, or some vulva or a penis.

I've long been a proponent of normalizing nudity. That said, I fully understand that such a thing is highly unlikely and there would be other hurdles to it other than simply normalizing it. I also don't think that most people would choose to go nude most of the time because clothing is practical. Tara has pointed out hygiene, but also for combating the elements and temperatures. Full public nudity would still be a rather rare occurrence I believe, but I think we would all be a little happier and healthier minded if we weren't stigmatizing our own naked bodies. Personally, I see mostly positive things that would come from normalizing the naked body.

It would, of course, take time to desensitize ourselves because we've all had a life time of nudity being taboo and naughty. But after a year or so of men and women being openly naked in certain circumstances it would become rather normal and not scandalous or provocative or erotic I think. But that's just my opinion and thoughts, I can't say how it would actually go. Though I will point to Europe and their healthier attitude about exposed breasts and even full nudity as an example that it can work and would likely be fine.
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Re: Freedom.

PostMon Mar 06, 2017 3:35 pm

Loki wrote:
aphrodite wrote:I agree With Loki that true freedom would allow for harming others as you please. But I also believe that true freedom or better yet, total freedom doesn't exist.

Is not about having rules or been allowed to do or not do. We live in a society that has certain expectations of behavior for its members and then rules appear. We should be able to be as free as possible, and that is only possible if you are also responsible. For human beings living a spiritual life, real freedom comes with education (not indoctrination) and responsibility. If you assume full responsibility for your actions you are fully free. You have all the options at your disposition and you act accordingly to your values knowing well enough what the consequences will be and willing to accept those without problem.

I know that may not be a popular thought, but if a person cause harm to himself or other and accept the consequences that society will impose without regrets, that person is really free. And IMO, that should be what each society should look forward to. You are free to say do as you want, I'm free to accept it or not, to react or not, to be offended or not. If I get offended and act against you for saying something and you accept that, you are free, but if you don't take my reaction or lack of calmly and react to it, then you weren't really free to act in the first place. Total freedom comes with total responsibility, and in our reality, it doesn't exist.


Very interesting, albeit a bit convoluted, way of looking at things. I think I agree.


It's really no that difficult, in order to be really free, you need to be aware of all of the consequences of your actions and fully willing to take them before deciding to act. Is not only doing something because I'm free to do it, Am I really free to kill someone and go on hiding to avoid get caught and go to prison?

Loki wrote:Your avatar and Karly's post brought up what I think would be an interesting point in a conversation regarding freedom: Nudity.

If granted total freedom many would take that to mean they are allowed to be as naked as they please in public. Others might say that by them choosing to be naked in public they are infringing on their rights not to be subjected to nudity when they walk out of their house or down the street. Personally, I think that in a totally free society we should be allowed to choose to wear (or not wear) whatever we want and if you don't like seeing nudity you should avert your eyes. What do you all think?


Nudity is a huge taboo in our society, especially among Judeo-Christian worlds. I have lived among native communities in the tropics and nudity, or partial nudity is normal. I pretty much agree with Taragaia that no one should dictate what another should wear. I don't think general public nudity will ever be a big think even if nudity is normalized. Aside for hygiene, is not too practical in certain places and/or, circumstances.
"Minds are like parachutes...they only function when they are open." Thomas Dewar
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Re: Freedom.

PostMon Mar 06, 2017 6:12 pm

Karlysymon wrote:Some people think that
freedom consists of being able to do what you want, when you want, and how you want to do it. What's wrong with that concept from a Christian/Islamic/Agnostic/Pagan/Political/Social-cultural perspective?


Nothing, God gave us free will, so what's wrong with free will? Nothing in principle.

But when people exercise their free will to hurt others, penalise anothers choice, take issue with anothers beliefs etc it is clearly wrong.

Karlysymon wrote:Many people claim to have more freedom than others (e.g religious and non religious, married people with those co-habiting etc) and furthermore, we tend to equate freedom with a lack of rules and the presence of boundaries as slavery of some sort. Does true freedom inherently require rules and boundaries? If not, what is freedom without rules?

I found the above question somewhere, edited it abit and thought i would put it here for discussion.


Freedom without rules is barbaric.

Civilisation establishes rules for the safety and well-being of the common folk. We who live in localities where law is established, agree to do so under those laws - unless those laws stop us from practicing that which we believe in if it hurts no one. That's when civil unrest takes place.

The USA and Trump - No More Moozlums - how is that a solution? It's creating more problems than we can guage right now. Time will tell how badly the USA degenerates. It's already gone past the tipping point of being a worldly standard. Today the world views the USA with contempt. Greatness is an illusion which nations like the USA foster.

From where I sit, it's quite entertaining in an ironic way, seeing the USA I used to admire, fall so low that even the farm animal has a little more respect than the proverbial uncle Sam.

"What is liberty without wisdom and without virtue? It is the greatest of all possible evils, for it is folly, vice, and madness, without restraint…” Edmund Burke


When nations promote the Vice and neglect the Virtues of our shared inherited legacy of humanity, we in deep shit.

And we all know it.

Scimi
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I have nothing to do with any recommendations to join any war on any person , race or community. I do not support ISIS nor any other movement, I seek opportunities to unite mankind, I seek to look at common ground and choose to ignore differences. I do not support violence, I condemn it. I have no affiliations with any promoting of violence be it political, racial or religious.
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Taragaia

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Re: Freedom.

PostTue Mar 07, 2017 4:57 am

Scimitar wrote:
Freedom without rules is barbaric.


How do you know? We've never seen it in action.

Scimitar wrote:When nations promote the Vice and neglect the Virtues of our shared inherited legacy of humanity, we in deep shit.

And we all know it.

Scimi


As far as I know this has been the lament of the religious man since the beginning of time, so what exactly to you try to point out?
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Karlysymon

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Re: Freedom.

PostThu Mar 09, 2017 11:49 am

Just wanted to thank everyone for their contribution. Moving on......
The 21st century man believes he enjoys greater liberty than his progenitor. Is that the case or is he merely failing to acknowledge that his wings have been clipped? What does everyone think? Aldous Huxley writes:
"A really efficient totalitarian state would be one in which the all-powerful executive of political bosses and their army of managers control a population of slaves who do not have to be coerced,
because they love their servitude.

Another writer says
the social engineers,
using a clever concoction of chemically-laced food and
water, mass media
entertainment, contrived social controversies, and technological gadgets, have found a successful means of keeping modern man in his place. And modern man
believes himself to be liberated, more free than ever before.
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Taragaia

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Re: Freedom.

PostThu Mar 09, 2017 6:16 pm

Karlysymon wrote:Just wanted to thank everyone for their contribution. Moving on......
The 21st century man believes he enjoys greater liberty than his progenitor. Is that the case or is he merely failing to acknowledge that his wings have been clipped?]


You're asking this on a conspiracy website? :Smile:

Of course I don't think I am ''free'' as brainwashed society tells me I am, otherwise I'd definitely not be hanging around here posting as much as I do ! :Wink:

It's quite obvious to me that we aren't being told the truth about things by the government, the 'elite'' and politicians. I just don't believe there is a spiritual component to that, I believe money is the driving factor behind the industry of lies, not Satan.

This short video sums up my beliefs about how free we really are rather well:
phpBB [video]


Our individualism is our downfall.

We're only strong when we stand together, and as a society we stand more divided than ever because we experience more individual wealth than ever before. That's what gives the elite so much power, ''divide and conquer'' is their strategy among with ''panem et cirque'' bread and entertainment. It's the same as it was in the old Roman empire. Distract people with entertainment and fill their bellies and they will believe most of what you say and willingly attend their own execution.
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Karlysymon

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Re: Freedom.

PostThu Mar 09, 2017 9:28 pm

There is the odd one who believes otherwise. Even of CT forums, people still make statements that the West is free compared to the East but the facts prove otherwise. Man is a spiritual being so we have to take into account that his spirituality is in 'their' crosshairs,[just realised this while typing it out!] just as his physical body is assaulted by gmos and chemtrails and the mind is aswell. While i was away, i did catch up on some reading and this shocked me
since modern man
has had the belief in the soul
intentionally stamped out of
him, as Bertrand Russell said
would occur. Russell said belief in free will and the soul would
have to be crushed through an
eternal boot on the face of all
resistance, to create the world
envisioned by the technocrats,
where depopulation and a mindless drone population
could be corralled into
monotonous Brave New World-
style delta and epsilon work.

I tried to find a direct quote of Russell saying that but couldn't find it although will keep digging. Could it be the reason behind some 'scientists' claiming we have no souls and no free will?
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Taragaia

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Re: Freedom.

PostTue Mar 14, 2017 2:45 am

Karlysymon wrote:I tried to find a direct quote of Russell saying that but couldn't find it although will keep digging. Could it be the reason behind some 'scientists' claiming we have no souls and no free will?


It probably is.

It certainly is more profitable for certain industries to perpetuate the idea that we only have one life and that we are only instincts and base desires,
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